Is Japanese or Western literature more brilliant?

[oren]

Brilliant by the criterion of potential effect on improving quickly for players in only the indicated rank range:
The ++ rank improvement books at
http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/isbn.html

Can you post some here for discussion? I don't find your page all that easy for navigating and finding what you consider brilliant.

I don't know anything about your own books.

[Joaz Banbeck]

pillow_fight.jpg (76.78 KiB) Viewed 12114 times

[Magicwand]

I saw samples of your writing and it wasnt goood.

Oh, I think now you made us curious. What have you detected that wasn't good in Robert's books? Something go related or language related e.g.?

My first dislike is languge related. His book makes simplething more complicated for no reason.
Second dislike is topic.
Capturing race is simple counting and no asian study that topic
it is like learn the theory of addition to college level student.
if you want to improve go skill you should watch 2 top ranked professionals game with professionals comment. Then you will broaden ur reading and view.
Not what is theory of ko

[RobertJasiek]

Can you post some here for discussion? I don't find your page all that easy for navigating and finding what you consider brilliant.

RANK IMPROVEMENT ++ books (after reading a book once, for readers of the recommended rank range, in order of occurrence on the webpage):

- Joseki Volume 1: Fundamentals
- Joseki Volume 2; Strategy
- Tesuji (Davies)
- First Fundamentals
- Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go
- Strategic Concepts of Go
- Attack and Defense

TOPICAL COVERAGE ++ book (recall that ++ for a topic in general refers to 9p knowledge completeness):

- First Fundamentals: - (fundamentals in general), ++ (fundamentals for beginners; note: likely a beginner must also practice reading; if you include this in the "fundamentals", then it becomes a + )

Due to my harsh ++ definition for topic coverage, there is no ++ book for a topic in general yet and some topics would require a book series to reach that rating.

[Laman]

would any of mods move my initial post from the other thread to this one? i believe it will fit here much better than to its current home. thanks

Robert Jasiek: thank you for your detailed response. you construct your statements precisely, but i am also careful in my writing, so i can say that i already knew most of your arguments posted here and i still stand behind what i wrote before.

you consider your books brilliant and most others far behind. i don't mind, i haven't read many go books at all, so i cannot judge. my point was that you express this opinion often, that some people might not like it and might not like you for it (it is little tiresome for me) and i was concerned that you might not realize this and might not want it to happen. whether you should do that is another matter, i haven't yet decided what is my stance on that and i made sure not to make any claims on that

[oren]

- Joseki Volume 1: Fundamentals
- Joseki Volume 2; Strategy
- Tesuji (Davies)
- First Fundamentals
- Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go
- Strategic Concepts of Go
- Attack and Defense

I'm going to throw out the three of yours you put in (why am I not surprised they're there), since I have not read them.

Tesuji and Attack and Defense are great books, but similar style books exist in Japan (which is no surprise from Kiseido).
I have never read Strategic Concepts of Go, so I can't comment on it specifically. It was written by a Japanese author, so I expect that much of what is taught is in Japanese literature.
Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go is a great book and not one I could say easily exists elsewhere. Yilung Yang is a great teacher.

[RobertJasiek]

languge related. His book makes simplething more complicated for no reason.

It seems that you are referring to Capturing Races 1. The only noteworthy term invention there is "fighting liberty". It makes a complicated thing simple because it allows the statement of the extraordinarily simple (and correct!) New Semeai Formula dF =? 0 for the basic semeai Classes 1 + 2. So 48 cases are summarised in one formula. The 1 case of Type 1 Case 7 is a seki. The remaining 44 cases are trivial (initially a major string in atari etc.) and so players can choose to ignore them.

Previously, matters were more complicated (and incorrect in some cases); part of the explanation is in the Correcting Mistakes in Literature chapter, where the nasty concept Forced Liberties is criticised.

Capturing race is simple counting

It is not simple counting because a) one must know WHAT to count and b) HOW to compare Black's and White's numbers.

(You would not believe how many dan players do not know the number of approach liberties of a 5-point eye...)

and no asian study that topic

Thanks for the confirmation;)

it is like learn the theory of addition to college level student.

No, it is (still) like theory of addition for pupils just above elementary school. When there are complicated approach moves and kos, the theory will reach (partly in research papers elsewhere has already reached) the level you fear.

if you want to improve go skill you should watch 2 top ranked professionals game with professionals comment.

Professional games are a good source for learning but professuonal comments too often are of the uninformative "this move is good, believe me" level. Have you ever seen a pro commentary with a proper positional judgement of the whole board? Maybe it exists but I have not seen it yet. Even such basics are missing in pro commentaries!

Not what is theory of ko

Ko theory is and will become more fun indeed:)

[palapiku]

Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go is a great book and not one I could say easily exists elsewhere. Yilung Yang is a great teacher.

You're thinking of Fundamental Principles of Go. Lessons in the Fundamentals is Japanese of course.

[RobertJasiek]

some people might not like it and might not like you for it [...] and i was concerned that you might not realize this and might not want it to happen.

I am aware of the existence of that opinion, but I do not fear opinions. What I fear is evidence of possibly having made factual mistakes (if any)! To me, superior (or simply correct) reasons are important. Opinions I meet with reasoning (where I can).

[RobertJasiek]

Tesuji and Attack and Defense are great books, but similar style books exist in Japan

Now this would be worth more details!:)

I have never read Strategic Concepts of Go, so I can't comment on it specifically. It was written by a Japanese author, so I expect that much of what is taught is in Japanese literature.

Sure, but, from a dan player's view, it is only basic contents and only little: to know roughly what miai, test move, aji, sacrifice stones, thickness and 3 more concepts are. So "taught in Japanese literature" does not have that much relevance. It is more relevant that the concepts are presented as concepts and are presented at one place, so that the SDK reader gets a good first overview on a few important central topics he needs to become aware of at all.

Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go is a great book and not one I could say easily exists elsewhere.

First Fundamentals is a similar book with also these major differences: it does not stress on every second page that studying the fundamentals is essential (which is the most important lesson of Lessons in the Fundamentals); it explains quite a few fundamentals in detail (sufficient detail for "beginners"; Lessons in the Fundamentals lacks this detail).

[oren]

Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go is a great book and not one I could say easily exists elsewhere. Yilung Yang is a great teacher.

You're thinking of Fundamental Principles of Go. Lessons in the Fundamentals is Japanese of course.

Sorry, you're right I do that a lot.

Lessons in the Fundamentals is a direct translation.

[daal]

you consider your books brilliant and most others far behind. i don't mind, i haven't read many go books at all, so i cannot judge. my point was that you express this opinion often, that some people might not like it and might not like you for it (it is little tiresome for me) and i was concerned that you might not realize this and might not want it to happen. whether you should do that is another matter, i haven't yet decided what is my stance on that and i made sure not to make any claims on that

I for one have never bought a book because I thought the author was nice.

[oren]

I for one have never bought a book because I thought the author was nice.

I did that for two books.

[topazg]

languge related. His book makes simplething more complicated for no reason.

It seems that you are referring to Capturing Races 1. The only noteworthy term invention there is "fighting liberty". It makes a complicated thing simple because it allows the statement of the extraordinarily simple (and correct!) New Semeai Formula dF =? 0 for the basic semeai Classes 1 + 2. So 48 cases are summarised in one formula. The 1 case of Type 1 Case 7 is a seki. The remaining 44 cases are trivial (initially a major string in atari etc.) and so players can choose to ignore them.

You do realise you just made magicwand's point for him?

[SmoothOper]

It doesn't matter, because they are both translations of Korean Go books. I am learning Mandarin ordered a Mandarin Go book, my wife read the intro and told me it was a translation from Korean.

By the way if anyone knows of go books that have been translated to English from Chinese let me know, ideally a dual language book would be great.