#179 - DJLLAP vs opex

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opex
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#179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Post by opex »

We are playing an even game with 6.5 komi, Japanese rules.

Nigiri:
:white: :white: :white:
:white: :white:

Onegaishimasu! :bow:
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Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Post by DJLLAP »

I won the nigiri, so here we go!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 19x19 board
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


By the way, this is my first time using diagrams, so I may make some mistakes.

I have been studying Shusaku's games recently, so I have been experimenting with more 3-4 and 5-3 openings recently.
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Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Post by opex »

Usually I take the opposite corner to deny the diagonal fuseki. But here I don't mind trying it out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm2
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Post by DJLLAP »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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opex
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Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Post by opex »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Post by DJLLAP »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


What I am hoping for.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Post by opex »

Approaching asymmetrical corner is said to be a first-priority move here.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm6
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Post by DJLLAP »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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opex
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Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Post by opex »

Hmm, i expected a pincer, but not such far one. I think i may even tenuki this but i don't really see any urgent point. So i'll just try to take the corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Post by EdLee »

Seems :w1: works better with the two :wc:'s on the left:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Post by skydyr »

Move 7 is one of the "missing pincers", which are extremely rare in high-level play. There's a bit about them at Sensei's here.
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Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Post by The Intrepid »

This "missing" pincer might not be bad here, for Black got to extend from his shimari. It'll be interesting to see how play proceeds from here.
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
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Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Post by The Intrepid »

I should also add that, if White were to tenuki, Black could then go on the attack. The pincering stone would then prove to be very useful, even if I would rather have the stone on the 4th line (such as at "x") than on the 3rd line.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
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$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . M B . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 2 . , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
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Re: #179 - DJLLAP vs opex

Post by DJLLAP »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



First I considered this, but I felt it did not work with mt upper stones well.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . 2 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



The joseki sequence for White to play (sorry, I couldn't figure out how to list numbers past 9 in a sequence. This creates life by ko in the corner. At first I thought White would die unconditionally, but then I saw the correct order of moves. First White must descend @T6, then throw in at T1 everything else, as far as I can tell fails.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 8 X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . 3 2 7 X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I expect the game to go more like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 8 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . 3 2 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

W lives unconditionally, but small and with some bad aji for B with those cutting stones.
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

DJLLAP,
DJLLAP wrote:I couldn't figure out how to list numbers past 9 in a sequence.
Yes, you need a new diagram every 10 moves.
DJLLAP wrote:First I considered this, but I felt it did not work with mt upper stones well.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm8
$$. . . . . . |
$$. 4 O . . . |
$$. . 2 3 . . |
$$. . X O . . |
$$. . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . |
$$-------------[/go]
It has little to do with other stones; locally, this is bad feeling
and bad shape for B -- you hit yourself on the head;
W hane head of your two B stones:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$. . . . . . |
$$. . @ . . . |
$$. . X @ . . |
$$. . X @ . . |
$$. . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . |
$$-------------[/go]
Not for players:
I don't understand :b9:.
If B gets (a) later, W is not even alive:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$, . . . . . , . . . |
$$. . . . . . . X . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . O . . . |
$$, . . . 5 . , 2 . . |
$$. . . . . . X O . . |
$$. . . . . 3 . 1 a . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$---------------------[/go]
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