skydyr
Oza
Posts: 2495 Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:06 amGD Posts: 0Universal go server handle: skydyrOnline playing schedule: When my wife is out.Location: DCHas thanked: 156 times Been thanked: 436 times
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by skydyr Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:38 pm
EdLee wrote: I don't understand
.
If B gets (a) later, W is not even alive:
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BYes, I expect white to trade the corner for influence on the left and come out ahead.
opex
Lives with ko
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by opex Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:26 am
Wow, so many comments... Thanks for watching!
The only move here
$$Wcm10
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm10
DJLLAP
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by DJLLAP Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:21 am
$$Wcm10
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm10
Splatted
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by Splatted Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:07 pm
Observers only:
I can't see any way for this corner to not turn out horribly for black. If this was a real time game I'd assume it was an impulsive mistake (I've played it quite a few times myself
), but since this is a Malkovich game and that approach is such a common situation, it seems likely he's not only thought it through a bit, but has also done the same thing before... Is there something I'm missing?
@Djllap:
konfuzed
Lives with ko
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by konfuzed Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:41 pm
@Splatted:
Ko for everything:
$$Wcm12
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm12$$Wcm20
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm20$$Bcm25
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm25
EdLee
Honinbo
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by EdLee Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:51 pm
Splatted wrote: Is there something I'm missing?
Yes, about
, I'm guessing:
(1) bad habit, (2) copying others (blindly), (3) misunderstanding, (4) reading problems; or some combo of the above.
Splatted
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by Splatted Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:36 pm
konfuzed wrote: @Splatted:
Ko for everything:
$$Wcm12
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm12$$Wcm20
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm20$$Bcm25
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm25
That explains it, but can't white play:
$$Wcm10
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm10@Ed Lee:
opex
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Posts: 201 Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:43 amGD Posts: 0KGS: 2kOGS: 8kUniversal go server handle: opexLocation: Saint-Petersburg, RussiaBeen thanked: 5 times
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by opex Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:49 pm
$$Wcm10
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm10
konfuzed
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by konfuzed Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:18 pm
@Splatted
Don't know for sure, but I believe this response from black rather than the tiger mouth would work in that case. White's knight move then does not take away a liberty.
$$Bcm10
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm10If white does want to take away a liberty, I think it doesn't quite work:
$$Bcm10
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm10
DJLLAP
Lives in gote
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by DJLLAP Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:49 pm
$$Wcm10
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm10@Splatted
EdLee
Honinbo
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by EdLee Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:52 pm
Splatted,
Splatted wrote: I can't see how it could become a bad habit without...
Usually, it's because nobody (high dan or above) ever pointed out to B the real meanings
(and complicated variations) behind a certain move (like
).
So people continue to play things like
often (with various results)
which actually may not be a bad thing, since a lot can be learned from the experiments.
For example, if
, a possible pro move is
--
the
stone (and the rest of the board) makes a huge difference for the choice of
(possible follow-ups for
include (b), (c), or something else entirely).
(At least one pro game, in 2002, had
after
. Another pro game, in 2008, had (b) for
directly.)
If
at (a) instead, then maybe W will simply (e) and (f) to capture
.
It's very messy -- the situation is quite different from the perspectives of some amateurs (kyus and low dans).
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
EdLee
Honinbo
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by EdLee Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:05 pm
konfuzed,
konfuzed wrote: I didn't realize he had already posted the same sequence
It's OK, I also got ninja'd by DJLLAP's own
.
Splatted
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by Splatted Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:01 pm
@Djllap
@Konfuzed:
@Ed Lee:
opex
Lives with ko
Posts: 201 Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:43 amGD Posts: 0KGS: 2kOGS: 8kUniversal go server handle: opexLocation: Saint-Petersburg, RussiaBeen thanked: 5 times
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by opex Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:34 am
$$Wcm14
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm14Immediate gote life is so small that i think i must be able to do better.
$$Wcm14
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm14Black gets some thickness, right?
$$Wcm14
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm14So now i'm thinking about this. If i manage to eat something, i think it's ok. I hope i'm not missing anything
$$Wcm14
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm14
.
), but since this is a Malkovich game and that approach is such a common situation, it seems likely he's not only thought it through a bit, but has also done the same thing before... Is there something I'm missing?
, a possible pro move is 
--
stone (and the rest of the board) makes a huge difference for the choice of 
include (b), (c), or something else entirely).
.
.