#180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:38 am

edit: Just to avoid confusion I figured I should mention that I already posted my move above.

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:22 am

I want to try this move badly, because it popped into my head and I want to see how it would work. It doesn't look like anything I've seen, but I think it might help with both the top-right corner and the top middle and expand well?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm17 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . 7 . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , a . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I would love to just play the 3-3 here in the normal joseki, but the facts that he just played the slide in the bottom right and that this large knight version of the slide is slightly worse for him than the small knight version have no impact on where the biggest move on the board for me is, so I must look everywhere. Thing is, if he takes my 3-3 my group is still not in too much danger.

I am also looking at these.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm17 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . d . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , d . . X . , e . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . a a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . c . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . . b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:48 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm17 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . 7 . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:52 pm

Apparently other people don't find the formation in the top right as interesting as I do!

I looked around a bit but the closest thing I could find to it is the second example here on sensei's library. The one in this game has an interesting corner too though, or at least I think so.

I believe this is supposed to be the standard continuation here by the way. I do not think I would play it if I was white though. Which may mean I am too weak to evaluate the position properly.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X . 2 1 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:49 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm17 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . 8 . X . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'll post thoughts in a little bit.

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:10 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm17 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . 9 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:15 pm

These are my thoughts from my last move. I've avoided looking at what konfuzed has posted so that his most recent move (if he's posted it yet) doesn't affect my thoughts.

So like I said earlier my move at S4 was threatening to take the corner, and that's what I intended to do if he tenukied. I decided to do something different instead, but I think it's important to note that I still consider this a follow-up to S4. I've learned the hard way that it's very important that when you threaten to do something you have to be willing to follow up on it. If you're not and your opponent decides to ignore the threat, there's a good chance he'll get to come back and defend it later. If you follow through then it becomes a trade: your profit locally for your opponents profit elsewhere. If you let him draw you in to his choice of move, then he may get to play there for free.

With that in mind, and especially considering that Konfuzed's move doesn't seem to threaten much, it seemed obvious that I should take the corner. If following up on S4 is a mistake then playing S4 in the first place was an even bigger mistake, but even if taking the corner wasn't big enough to warrant S4, I think I should take what profit I can now that I've played it. That being said though, I looked at the situation and I realised that black had a pretty good reply to me taking the corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . B . O . | $$ | . . . . . . 2 . . X . . X . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Normally extending probably wouldn't be a good idea because it allows white to attack the marked black stone, but in this case it also weakens the marked white stones, which are a lot more important for a few reasons, but most importantly, the black stone is only part of black's group, but white's two stones are the entirety of the white group. (Edit: Maybe I was wrong about this; the black stones look low and unhappy, and the marked white stones still aren't in any danger.)

So I don't like the exchange of white R3 for Black G3, but I think approaching from the other side still takes advantage of S4 because it makes taking the corner more important. If black black doesn't answer white's move in the corner, then an attack cutting off the marked black stone also threatens the life of the K3 and N3 stones.

I see three ways this can go

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . 2 . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . 3 . X . . X . . . 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black decides to avoid letting white take the corner in sente and replies to :w3:

by defending the corner in gote. I'm not sure who this series of exchanges favours, so I'm not dissatisfied with this. :w1:

and

seem about equal but it's hard to say how much :b2:

and

are worth.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . 2 . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , 4 . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . 3 . X . . X . . 6 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black decides to take another big point and white gets to take the corner in sente. I don't like letting black take more elsewhere but the exchange of :b5:

for

is very good for white, and white ends up with sente.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . 2 . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , 6 . . X . , 4 . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 7 X . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . 3 . X . . X . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black just ignores everything and white goes to town on his group. Obviously Konfuzed isn't going to be quite so passive in his moves elsewhere, but I think if you view each number move as stages of play (so white might reply to black's tenukis) then this is a good indication of what I expect.

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:48 pm

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:33 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I was originally going to play R16, and wrote:

There are a lot of places I really want to play right now, but I think this is the most important because not only is the right side still relatively open, It's next to where black is strongest and I am weakest. The ideal for black right now is to develop his top side by threatening my weakness, which could easily be achieved simply by approaching at R12

At which point I realised that didn't quite work so well as I'd thought:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , a . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White has the invasion at "a" still, and though that probably means black will connect up and get a lot of influenceI think that is counterable.

So I decided to attach to the C6 stone as I think this is either likely to result in me taking a huge amount of territory if he gives it up (so I guess he won't) or letting him live in the corner in exchange for building influence to attack the two nearby black groups and counter black's influence at the top if he plays that way.

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:06 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:58 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Firstly, mutual destruction isn't an option here because black has much more to gain on the right. I was going to just go ahead and play the sequence I planned earlier, but then I remembered why I wanted to avoid it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , 3 . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This looks pretty bad, but I think defending with :w3:

would be too passive here. I can't afford to let black take such huge profit on the top so I guess I am just going to have to play the sequence, which may not be too bad. :b4:

is the kind of invasion that's just too complicated for me to read out properly, but I think it could turn out okay, and as behind as I am, I should be looking for fights, not backing down from them. Besides, I've been playing on Tygem. :twisted:

Edit: Forgot to include my move. :oops:

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:57 pm

Edit: Forgot to include my move.

I don't mind, passing is acceptable ;-)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I would like to take the 3-4, but don't think I like the results.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , 2 . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Playable, but...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , 2 . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Normally in this situation I would like to extend from the stone he clamps, but I don't think extending works well here either right away or after he ataris me. I dont' want to have to hane and give him extreme strength by sacrificing either. I think he is getting more and fixing more weaknesses overall than me?

EDIT: Maybe it would've been fine if I just sort of left the stone he clamped as aji and tried to build up a moyo in the center. or something

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , a . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c b . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X d . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So what happens from here? I see 4 interesting points for me. a gets me huge points. b threatens to split his group. c would be to try to seal his group and make points with my bottom group but I think the fight favors him if he resists. d can get me a lot of points and make b rather severe? Maybe he will get a better result here but I think I can probably make something work. I consider this game close but it feels like it could swing in either direction by a lot to me.

Also, I haven't forgot about the bottom left. I think I can still do something there but not anything worth abandoning this situation for.

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:52 pm

I don't mind, passing is acceptable

That's very sportsmanlike of you. A lesser person might stubbornly refuse to continue the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , 5 . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:07 pm

I want to play in all 3 places so bad! The josekis that "a" leads to are complicated enough even without me having these extra stones other than my 6-4 that I'm trying to maximise the efficiency of. I have no idea which of these things to play first to get the best result. If my past decisions are any indication you can expect "a" because that is the move I find most interesting at the moment. But part of me wants to probe around "b" first, maybe see if I can get c in sente. Another part of me wants to say that I can get thickness on top first that will help me with the lower fight.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . a . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X c . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

A lot of normal variations fall apart for him because of my extra stones, but...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 6 9 | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . 2 1 7 . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . 3 O 8 . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm0 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . O X X . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 3 . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X 8 O X 4 . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X 5 X O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . 7 6 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 9 . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . 2 1 4 . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X 7 3 O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . 6 . 8 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My own stones can get weak here too! It looks like I am in an offensive position but we are both at serious risk here. There are too many josekis and varations to list.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm10c 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X X 1 | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . O X O . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X X X O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I guess this variation is probably fine for me since I can run to the center and he has to cover his weaknesses, it just feels like the game can explode in all sorts of crazy ways if I create a big fight in this corner.

konfuzed · Post by **konfuzed** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:28 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . 6 . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Who am I kidding? I am already mentally committed to this as the most interesting move in the board.

EDIT: Starting to wish I had played this one instead. :cry:

Maybe I'm wrong, but this move feels potentially game-winning to me. I didn't think of it because I am not used to having this 6-3 stone, and it changes things.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . X O . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . O . X . , . . . X . , O . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Life In 19x19

#180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed

Re: #180 Splatted vs konfuzed