Araban wrote:Playing out the variations on a board or on a computer with stones to try and figure out an L&D problem is silly. Do you get to pause a game and ask your opponent if you could play out some variations in a corner before making your move? Course not, so it makes no sense to do so for tsumego.
The best way is to simply read everything out in your head. If you can't solve it, don't look at the solution - just go to the next problem and move on. Only look at the solution if you're 100%, and I truly mean 100%, sure you've got it. But even here there is some debate: after all, if you're truly 100% sure, why is there a need to look at the solution in the first place? Regardless, I think most people can agree that you shouldn't even consider looking at the solution unless you are, without a doubt, certain you are correct. Note I said "most" and not "all"; I have seen some high-leveled players make the suggestion of just looking at the answer when you can't figure it out, but I just can't agree with this and feel that, in the long run, it'll cripple you.
Also, by solving I don't mean just figuring out the first move to the solution sequence. You should not only be able to understand the solution line, but also why other lines fail and understand the intricacies in there as well. You'd be surprised how elegant some of the failed sequences are in problems, the traps that the tsumego composer put in there can at times be dazzling.
Hmmm...This may explain why I've stopped improving at chess. Actually, in all seriousness it's about half the reason. The other half the reason is that I've gotten lazy in doing tactical puzzles. I still enjoy the game, don't get me wrong, but my improvement has been very slow, if at all.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that looking at the answer is not always bad, and does not always cripple you in the long run. Why? Simple...Let's say that you're doing a training regimen for several weeks with 1200, or so, problems in order to improve. As you start out you do all the problems in 12 days, then you repeat the process in 8 days, then 6, then 4, then 3, then 2, then finally you're going to do all the problems in a single day. After 10 minutes or so, you should look at the answer study it, then move on. The first few times you hit the "problem" problems you're training your reading ability, and the last few times you're training your pattern recognition ability. Does looking at the answer hurt in this case? Probably not, and in all actuality it probably helps.
Though, I think I know the situation in which Araban is talking about. The situation is giving up on the problem, and saying you are "not good enough" to solve the problem. In this situation, one does indeed cripple one's ability.
In essence, just because you can't solve a problem right now, it DOES NOT mean you will never solve the problem. It just means that you might have to stretch a little before you CAN solve it. All, I think, Araban is saying is just that. You might have to stretch, sometimes a little and sometimes a lot more, before you can solve a problem. There is nothing wrong with this fact. In fact, I have found that the more I struggle to learn something and the more frustrated I get, the more I learn and grow in whatever I've struggled in.
Personally, as I embark on my journey in improvement in Go, I'm going to try to follow this little piece of advice. Looking at solutions, at this stage would only hurt me as I'm only 18-19 kyu.
GoCat wrote:I'm with the folks who say it's okay to look at the answer if you don't get it. How long before throwing in the towel?
I'm not sure, but I actually think that going too long is bad. For me, I go maybe 5-10 minutes or so before I look at the answer.
Here's why I do that: When I spend, say, a half-hour or more on a problem I can't solve, what's happening in my head is that I keep running through all the wrong sequences more than I should. So, rather than training my brain to pop out the right answer, I'm actually training it to pop out the wrong one! Once I've looked at the answer, I go back to the problem page and visualize the correct sequence a couple times to help reset my neuro-pattern-reading brain.
So, in general, when I'm doing problems, I pick a book where I'm hitting maybe 50-80% correct within my 10 minute time allotment. I might break it into section; say 10 problems. When I'm through a sections, if I've missed more than a handful, I'll
repeat the section (much faster, now). I try to do that the same day, so I'm actually remembering the solution, not having to reread it. (I try to read the sequence where applicable, not just the first move.) If I can come bay the next day, and then several days later, and quickly see the right sequences, then I know it's sinking in.
As you can possibly tell, I think there's a lot of knowledge being stored subconsciously, here. And I think the way to get that knowledge into the subconscious is to keep
repeating the pattern mentally. (Think of musicians -- their ability to sight read comes about this way.) Does that help my game? No -- I've been 5K for too many years!
So, what I say is just my own style -- may not work for others, needless to say.
btw: I didn't answer the poll. Don't know about everyone else, but just looking at the list of choices made my brain go foggy! Couldn't bring myself to read through it!
Hmmm...To look or not to look at the solutions? That is the question. In practice, I agree, with GoCat that going too long on a problem is a bad idea. Also, repetition is the key to learning, and when you look at the solution to something, you should repeat that problem several times in the following days to make sure you are learning, and not just skating by. I think that looking at the solution, too early, has harmed my chess ability as well as the non-repetition once I looked at the solution.
How long is too long to spend on a problem? I don't know, but all I can say is that it's different for each person.
All in all, I think that both Araban and GoCat have good ideas. When I actually do tsumego, I'm going to somewhat blend their ideas. Though I think that Araban is right, with the idea that we all need to stretch our abilities. I'm going to start by never looking at the answers, because to improve I need to stretch, and later when pattern recognition becomes key, I'll start doing problems repetitively, maybe 3 out of 10 max, I'll look at the answer and focus on those.
Also, the point of Tsumego, IMO, is to learn something. As with all puzzles, if you're not learning anything you're not stretching enough since they're too easy or you're giving up too easily, again IMHO.
