Rating of Gnu Go at different strength settings

[PeterPeter]

Despite much searching, I have been unable to find much info on the ratings of the latest (v3.8) version at its different strength settings, though full strength it seems to be around 5k. Just a ballpark figure for its lowest strength setting would be nice.

[jts]

Weak.

Why do you want to know?

[PeterPeter]

Mainly to assess my progress.

If I beat it, does that mean I am nearer 30k, 25k or 20k? I really have no idea.

[jts]

I wouldn't worry about assessing your progress by determining the rank at which you can beat GnuGo. In fact, I wouldn't worry about assessing your progress based on "rank" at all, for now. The saying is, "lose your first 100 games quickly" - meaning, you improve so much in your first few months of playing, that worrying about how good you are on a day-to-day basis is kind of pointless.

A forum member named tezza was quite anxious to have some way to judge his progress through the beginner ranks, even after Ed Lee and I tried to reassure him that the rank-numbers themselves weren't that informative, and this is what I suggested to him at the time:

(i) Are your moves consistent? Do you come up with a plan and follow-through, or do you have to abandon it after the next move?
(ii) Do you play moves that attack or defend groups that are already completely alive? Do you neglect to play moves which attack or defend groups that are nearly dead?
(iii) Are you playing thin formations with tons of cutting points? Who is getting cut to ribbons, you or your opponent?
(iv) Are you playing urgent moves before big moves, and big moves before small moves?
(v) Are you looking for, and finding, multi-purpose moves that answer your opponent's threats but do a little bit of extra work, as well?
(vi) Do you play in a way that shows an understanding of sente, gote, and miai?
(vii) Are you deciding whether to invade or reduce based on an appropriate understanding of the whole-board situation?
(viii) Are you spotting ladders, nets, tesuji, and other techniques that you've been studying?

Looking at that list now I'm not sure if it will make sense to someone who started playing Go last week, but I think you get the idea - if you need concrete markers of your progress, focus on the qualitative rather than the quantitative.

[PeterPeter]

OK, I will take your advice and not worry too much about my rank

It is also to give an indication to other players, since "beginner" seems to cover a very broad range, from people who have just played a few games, right up to 20k-10k.

[Alguien]

OK, I will take your advice and not worry too much about my rank

It is also to give an indication to other players, since "beginner" seems to cover a very broad range, from people who have just played a few games, right up to 20k-10k.

Play against it until you beat it in the hardest level.

play fast, play slow, use undos, cheat, change colors mid-game... Just play a stupid amount of games.

The basic shapes will be imprinted on your subconscious and you'll advance ranks very fast.

You can worry about breaking bad habits when you're <5k. Bots give you some, but playing against ddks does too; we all have to learn to rethink our go all the time anyway.


At the beginning, no teaching technique beats "stupid amount of games", thus the proverb.

You'll have time to study when it's "required" to get better.

[PeterPeter]

That's good advice, thanks.

I better clarify: "It is also to give an indication to other players, since "beginner" seems to cover a very broad range, from people who have just played a few games, right up to 20k-10k."

What I meant was: I would like a number to put in my profile, in here, on KGS etc so other people know whether they are dealing with a beginner of 3 days, a beginner of 3 months, or whereabouts in between.

[oren]

Just play automatch games on KGS against real people for a bit and you'll find the 'rank'. Don't worry too much about gnugo and don't worry about what the rank is at all.

In your info there, you can put started three days ago.

[karaklis]

GnuGo is supposed to be around 8k. Usually I give it 3-4 stones, but I haven't played it for quite long now. When you play it too often, you'll probably find out its weaknesses, and this will distort a bit the result comparing to that with human players.

As a beginner you may want to try Aya 6.34. I liked to play it when I was still in the DDK area.

[Boidhre]

That's good advice, thanks.

I better clarify: "It is also to give an indication to other players, since "beginner" seems to cover a very broad range, from people who have just played a few games, right up to 20k-10k."

What I meant was: I would like a number to put in my profile, in here, on KGS etc so other people know whether they are dealing with a beginner of 3 days, a beginner of 3 months, or whereabouts in between.

Just say Beginner. No need to say a rank.

Hell, the numbers beside this post are meaningless, I've no idea what my current online rank is since I haven't been playing and many other people don't bother updating their rank at all. jts is sandbagging with his 6k rank.

[jts]

jts is sandbagging with his 6k rank.

shhhhhhhhh

[eldritch]

I used to ask myself the same question for the same reasons (see also your introductory post). However, I've stopped playing Gnu Go at anything but its strongest level. At the weaker levels, it plays moves that don't seem to make any sense. It turns out this is because they actually don't make any sense, not because it has some brilliant plan I'm too weak to see .
So I lose often on 9x9, sometimes I win. I'm pathetically satisfied if I can make it 'think' for more than a split second .

(Small hint: try invading, Gnu Go likes to try intimidating you with invasions, but it's often at a loss when the tables are turned. Yes, I realize I'm talking about a computer program as if it's a real person.)

[judicata]

OK, I will take your advice and not worry too much about my rank

It is also to give an indication to other players, since "beginner" seems to cover a very broad range, from people who have just played a few games, right up to 20k-10k.

I agree with everyone else about not worrying about your rank.

If you show me a recent game, I will give you a rank to put in your profile with a straight facee. I'm not saying I'll be accurate, and it won't mean much. In fact, I'll probably say something like 19k. I can't tell the difference between a 17k and a 24k, but no one else really can either, so they can't really accuse you of dishonesty .

EDIT: I see you posted a game in another thread. I'd prefer to see a 19x19 game with a human. BUT you can put 19k in your profile with a straight face.