The Passing of Go superiority in East Asia

[p2501]

As I mentioned a friend told me this and some other friend told him. So this is just hearsay, yet may be evidence as to how Go has developed in the recent few decades.

Okay it's been at least dubious so far. But this screams troll.

[EdLee]

From the Time chart it seems like the time issue isn't that big of a deal.
All of the international tournaments have at least an hour of play time...

(my emphasis.)
Seems there's some misunderstanding -- an initial time of 2 hours per person is considered short for pros.

[SmoothOper]

From the Time chart it seems like the time issue isn't that big of a deal.
All of the international tournaments have at least an hour of play time...

(my emphasis.)
Seems there's some misunderstanding -- an initial time of 2 hours per person is considered short for pros.

Especially if you are only really familiar with 4,4 openings.

[kivi]

In Japan ...

In Korea ...

In China ...

This of course is a gross generalization but to an extent could be quite true.

I heard this from Guo Juan probably at an open KGS+ lecture or similar promo lecture, on KGS. I remember it with Korean and Chinese switched, though not really sure. This was at least 2 years ago, possibly more.

Apart from that, An Younggil 8p sometimes touches the topic during his game commentaries. One thing he mentions is the burden of 2 (3?) years military service for Koreans pros, forcing a long break at crucial age. A few pros got exempt, or did short service, but apparently that's not possible anymore.

[gasana]

I too heard this "story" from Guo Juan, and also with chinese and korea the other way around. But i don't remember she was saying it has much to do with the strength (but i may have forgotten), but more with some crazy move which are often described as "korean style" (again my memory could be a bit off).

The argument with the 4-4 made me laugh for 10 minutes before i could breath again, great joke!

[emeraldemon]

Nongshim.jpg (121.36 KiB) Viewed 6201 times

[SmoothOper]

I wonder if there were someway to do unbiased statistics about games won and lost in head to head competition. IE are Koreans winning against Japanese or Chinese winning against Japanese. It could be that during a course of a tournament the Koreans tend to knock the Japanese out, and the Chinese do OK against either, however if they don't do equally well against both then they may not advance to the top levels of play. It would be interesting to see if this were the case.

[pwaldron]

Within the last few decades Korean Go players overtook the Japanese players (Years?). Chinese players have also overtaken the Japanese (Years?). What caused the slipping of the Japanese program and the rise of the Korean and Chinese programs?

This question comes up in one form or another on a regular basis. I'll recycle my usual reply.

People who look for genetic or cultural reasons are kidding themselves. Korea is good at go for the same reason that Russia was good at chess and Canada is good at hockey--they have lots of people (usually children) playing at the amateur levels that feed into the pro leagues.

John Power summed it up in twelve words: "Go is popular because Korean mothers think it makes their children smarter." In Korea go is regarded as an activity that can improve the brain and so Korean mothers don't mind shuttling their kids to go schools etc. In Japan, it's regarded as a past time along with video games. If parents are encouraging their children in one country and discouraging them in another, it is going to have an effect at the top levels.

[SmoothOper]

Korean mothers don't mind shuttling their kids to go schools etc.

Ah the Baduke Mom minivan problem.

[speedchase]

Especially if you are only really familiar with 4,4 openings.

seriously?
Japan was more successful earlier, which is when the 4,4 was played LESS.
not to mention that korea also uses traditional handicap placement.

[SmoothOper]

Especially if you are only really familiar with 4,4 openings.

seriously?
Japan was more successful earlier, which is when the 4,4 was played LESS.
not to mention that korea also uses traditional handicap placement.

Makes sense to me they played 4-4 less and they were more successful, now 4-4 is played more because they use traditional handicaps and they lose more.

[speedchase]

Makes sense to me they played 4-4 less and they were more successful, now 4-4 is played more because they use traditional handicaps and they lose more.

That's absurd. They would win more when they were playing moves they were used too.
edit: I was talking about non handi games. Japan always used traditional handicaps.

[illluck]

Especially if you are only really familiar with 4,4 openings.

seriously?
Japan was more successful earlier, which is when the 4,4 was played LESS.
not to mention that korea also uses traditional handicap placement.

Makes sense to me they played 4-4 less and they were more successful, now 4-4 is played more because they use traditional handicaps and they lose more.

Truly, the best defense is to have so many weaknesses that it's impossible to pick where to even begin -.-

[SmoothOper]

seriously?
Japan was more successful earlier, which is when the 4,4 was played LESS.
not to mention that korea also uses traditional handicap placement.

Makes sense to me they played 4-4 less and they were more successful, now 4-4 is played more because they use traditional handicaps and they lose more.

Truly, the best defense is to have so many weaknesses that it's impossible to pick where to even begin -.-

Ah so that is why people play the 4-4.

[Shaddy]

What do you have against the 4-4?