Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??)

Talk about improving your game, resources you like, games you played, etc.
NoSkill
Lives with ko
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:20 pm
Rank: 1D
GD Posts: 0
KGS: NoSkill
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??)

Post by NoSkill »

Im known for having big failure openings and being 20-40 pts down, then coming back to kill something or do some kind of win. When I don't have this terrible openings (say just a calm regular opening) i can crush people my rank within 80 moves often times. So im wondering if there is anyway to train other than studying opening patterns, like studying how to judge better or something that im missing?

I have studied sanrensei and low chinese, some joseki etc. But I still end up making my biggest mistakes in the fuseki... is the answer just to play a calm opening then start the fight midgame and win that ?
User avatar
cdybeijing
Lives in gote
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:27 am
Rank: IGS 2 dan
GD Posts: 0
Location: Shanghai, China
Has thanked: 96 times
Been thanked: 100 times
Contact:

Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??)

Post by cdybeijing »

Review pro games, commented ones are best. Better yet, find a pro whose games you like and study his (or her) games in particular.
Uberdude
Judan
Posts: 6727
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am
Rank: UK 4 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Location: Cambridge, UK
Has thanked: 436 times
Been thanked: 3718 times

Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??)

Post by Uberdude »

There are lots of books about the opening, read them.
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3373 times

Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??)

Post by Bill Spight »

I second studying pro games. Particularly games of fighters and killers, like Kato, Sakata, Jowa.

Good luck! :(
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
NoSkill
Lives with ko
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:20 pm
Rank: 1D
GD Posts: 0
KGS: NoSkill
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??)

Post by NoSkill »

Uberdude wrote:There are lots of books about the opening, read them.


I have read some but as I said, unless a pattern comes up where is specifically know how to play it goes off. I generally think that any opening I do tends to be bad unless its super solid and slow, but my midgame or reading is the only thing keeping me at 2k-1D on kgs.
Josh Hatch
Dies in gote
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:11 pm
GD Posts: 0
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??)

Post by Josh Hatch »

NoSkill wrote:
Uberdude wrote:There are lots of books about the opening, read them.


I have read some but as I said, unless a pattern comes up where is specifically know how to play it goes off. I generally think that any opening I do tends to be bad unless its super solid and slow, but my midgame or reading is the only thing keeping me at 2k-1D on kgs.


I agree with Bill and cdybeijing. Studying pro games will show you a lot of different openings and not just patterns. It will help you get a feel for what pros see as good, bad and even results if you are looking at commented games. It's also quite fun, imo.
User avatar
Loons
Gosei
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:17 am
GD Posts: 0
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??)

Post by Loons »

Strong players' teaching/reviews of your games.

Emphasis: Strong.

Without powerful guidance it's easy to spend time wastefully misunderstanding/misapplying real ideas eg. from books.
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
RobertJasiek
Judan
Posts: 6273
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:54 pm
GD Posts: 0
Been thanked: 797 times
Contact:

Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??)

Post by RobertJasiek »

Ensure you don't make DDK mistakes in the opening. Beyond that, read Rin Kaiho's fuseki dictionary twice.

Since you notice that you fall behind in the opening, why don't you simply learn from your mistakes? How do you know that you are behind if you do not understand that you are behind? Can you or can you not do positional judgement during the opening?
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

Loons wrote:Strong players' teaching/reviews of your games.
Emphasis: Strong.
Without powerful guidance it's easy to spend time wastefully misunderstanding/misapplying real ideas eg. from books.
I agree completely with Loons. In fact, I'd up the emphasis not only to "pro" but "a good-level pro who is also a good teacher for you."
(Of course, tuition remains an issue.) With a good teacher, next is how well you follow the teacher's suggestions (your homework),
and how hard you work. YMMV.
NoSkill
Lives with ko
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:20 pm
Rank: 1D
GD Posts: 0
KGS: NoSkill
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??)

Post by NoSkill »

RobertJasiek wrote:Ensure you don't make DDK mistakes in the opening. Beyond that, read Rin Kaiho's fuseki dictionary twice.

Since you notice that you fall behind in the opening, why don't you simply learn from your mistakes? How do you know that you are behind if you do not understand that you are behind? Can you or can you not do positional judgement during the opening?


Well my bad openings usually come down to this:

1: Lack of knowledge of mini-chinese, kobayashi, 3-4 joseki patterns (other than the basics), and such things.

But MAINLY it is because of:

2. Playing a move that looks interesting after only reading a few moves into it.

3. Seeing the correct move with my instinct, because my instinct is actually good for fuseki, but then doubting it thinking it might be too slow and invading or doing a bad move instead.
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

NoSkill wrote:Well my bad openings usually come down to this:
1: Lack of knowledge of mini-chinese, kobayashi, 3-4 joseki patterns (other than the basics), and such things.
But MAINLY it is because of:
2. Playing a move that looks interesting after only reading a few moves into it.
3. Seeing the correct move with my instinct, because my instinct is actually good for fuseki, but then doubting it thinking it might be too slow and invading or doing a bad move instead.
Are those points your own assessment, your opinion, or the opinion of your teacher(s)?
If they are your opinion, then how do you know how accurate they are?
NoSkill
Lives with ko
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:20 pm
Rank: 1D
GD Posts: 0
KGS: NoSkill
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re:

Post by NoSkill »

EdLee wrote:
NoSkill wrote:Well my bad openings usually come down to this:
1: Lack of knowledge of mini-chinese, kobayashi, 3-4 joseki patterns (other than the basics), and such things.
But MAINLY it is because of:
2. Playing a move that looks interesting after only reading a few moves into it.
3. Seeing the correct move with my instinct, because my instinct is actually good for fuseki, but then doubting it thinking it might be too slow and invading or doing a bad move instead.
Are those points your own assessment, your opinion, or the opinion of your teacher(s)?
If they are your opinion, then how do you know how accurate they are?


My opinion... I believe it is true because often times in a game I will see a move that instantly makes me want to play it, but then I think and say no, play a different move. In review im told the move I first thought of is better.

Also like I said I will play the "interesting move" when I shouldnt, like in the game vs 1D I have on this site. Costs me a lot of games.

Someone has told me I am too bloodthirsty and that is why I am not stronger, that I am only good at killing.
RobertJasiek
Judan
Posts: 6273
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:54 pm
GD Posts: 0
Been thanked: 797 times
Contact:

Re: Bad judgement, but good (reading or something else??)

Post by RobertJasiek »

NoSkill wrote:1: Lack of knowledge of mini-chinese, kobayashi, 3-4 joseki patterns (other than the basics), and such things.


Read fuseki dictionaries.

2. Playing a move that looks interesting after only reading a few moves into it.


Read more deeply. Now that was easy:)

3. Seeing the correct move with my instinct, because my instinct is actually good for fuseki, but then doubting it thinking it might be too slow and invading or doing a bad move instead.


See (1.) and you must acquire an ability to make positional judgement during the opening. For that, read related go theory books on positional judgement (or wait until mine appear), opening theory books to understand basics of directions etc. in openings and go theory books on strategic concepts to be able to apply them to a position in the opening.
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

NoSkill wrote:My opinion...
In review i'm told...
Someone has told me...
What was/were the level(s) of the reviewer(s)? The "someone" or some people?
Alguien
Lives in gote
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:50 pm
Rank: KGS 3k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: Alguien
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Re:

Post by Alguien »

EdLee wrote:Are those points your own assessment, your opinion, or the opinion of your teacher(s)?
If they are your opinion, then how do you know how accurate they are?


If only everyone (me included) silently applied this questions to all their assumptions, the world would be a better place.
Post Reply