#181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

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Magicwand
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Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Post by Magicwand »

S15
this is huge success for white
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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topazg
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Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . 1 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . . 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, so this is a reasonably expected result from My plan. It's a loss in the corner, but White doesn't have much scope for expansion, and Black's outside thickness seems reasonable. The question in my mind is what White can do to the right hand side. My profit there determines whether or not this is a success for White or for Black, and that's not clear to me right now. Both the top left and bottom left corner are still invadable, and I have no weak groups, which makes me happy enough, but it's also a matter of finding ways of collecting points.

Either way, onwards we go...
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Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Post by Magicwand »

R15
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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topazg
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Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . 1 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . 4 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X 5 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


FWIW, if this ends up being just bad for Black, I should most likely have accepted the weakness of the top group much earlier and played this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . 7 . . . O . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . b . 8 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I very nearly did play this line, but it just irked me to feel the need to defend with moves like :b27: and have the middle turned into something like this, and have to decide between points like "a" and "b". Running fights with magicwand never turn out well :P
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Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Post by Magicwand »

R4 peep
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

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topazg
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Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . 1 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . 4 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X 5 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . 7 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think this thickness is important. For one thing, it's either good points or useful outside thickness, whereas blocking the other side both leaves bad aji and, to be honest, a flavour of overconcentration to me.

PS If anyone following the game actually wants to ask me something, please do.
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Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Post by hyperpape »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X 3 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O 2 1 O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This feels crude, but does it work?

If it does, can white play more simply:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Magicwand
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Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Post by Magicwand »

R7
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
hi might run out of real estate soon. If he loses sente now...he doesnt have any chance of winning this game.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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topazg
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Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X 9 . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Keeping the corner feels important, if he jumps, so do I:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm40 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . 2 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Magicwand
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Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Post by Magicwand »

P7 jump
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

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topazg
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Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Must ... get ... sente
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Magicwand
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Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

probe.. and what i expect
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . 3 . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . 1 5 X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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topazg
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Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . 3 . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Interesting ... probe presumably, I am expecting him to play to connect next, or I'm going to have to do some reading about what I can do ... I have some useful thickness around here.
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Magicwand
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Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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topazg
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Re: #181 magicwand vs topazg (again!)

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . X . . O . . O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 5 X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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