#190 - topazg vs magicwand

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Magicwand
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Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

thank you marcus..
intresting unexpected cut....only move for me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

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topazg
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Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . 0 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Magicwand
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Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

something close to below ???
20 points for black...my influence exceed that amount IMO.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 1 2 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 X O X 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

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topazg
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Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Magicwand
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Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by Magicwand »

C13/b14/b13
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

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Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 1 2 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Mmm, he chose that way, ok. That sounds good to me.
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Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 1 2 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 X O X 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

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Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by The Intrepid »

@topazg
Would you say :w5: was a kyu-ish move by Magicwand? :D
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
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Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 1 2 . . 8 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 X O X 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Saving the single stone is rather heavy/slow when White's group is already strong enough that a ponnuki there won't be so valuable - it's not like if I connect I can really threaten to cut very much.

As a result, I'll play to stay ahead along the 4th line along the top and leave open my development options.

My guess is he's going to extend from his wall now.

@Intrepid: Not that one just yet :D, but I'm sure there'll be some ;)
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Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by Chew Terr »

While I can certainly see the value of this move, I wonder how things would have looked a bit later if B had played C7 instead. I think reducing the effectiveness of the wall might have been worth letting W get a free move on top.
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Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by Phoenix »

@ The Intrepid:
That move simplifies the joseki, but it's still joseki. It's the continuation that was technically botched on Magicwand's part.


Also for non-players:
The joseki might be a local blunder for White (look at all that corner profit!), but in this position Black can't rest with this perfect wall facing his hoshi. I would have probably played C7 as Chew Terr suggested. An approach around R14 would probably be the right direction of play for White afterwards.
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Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by The Intrepid »

@Phoenix
I was just giving topazg an opportunity to stick it to Magicwand ... opportunities that will simply keep coming up over, and over, and over again ... ;)
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
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Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by SoDesuNe »

Chew Terr wrote:
While I can certainly see the value of this move, I wonder how things would have looked a bit later if B had played C7 instead. I think reducing the effectiveness of the wall might have been worth letting W get a free move on top.


I'd play C6, but yeah. Topazg move seems too close to his strong position and it has no merit in my opinion.
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Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by Magicwand »

D6
I am satisfied with current position
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

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Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 1 2 . . 8 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 X O X 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 0 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


No sense in fancy. If he follows joseki I'm happy:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 1 X . X . . . , . . b . . , . . . |
$$ | . 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


There's no a lot of aji on the left side, making it less effective as a territory making area than it looks, and I have moves around "a" and the "b" points to follow with. My gut feeling is that White will take "a" first but knowing magicwand he may try to take hold of the initiative and approach in the top right.
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