#190 - topazg vs magicwand

User avatar
Magicwand
Tengen
Posts: 4844
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:26 am
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
GD Posts: 0
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 504 times

Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


he went high??? should have been low considering his advantage.
my optimal play should be protecting my left and give him bottom but..that only works in even game...
i will leave my weakness and attack to ride the wave.


my :wc: looks bad on below picture.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . 1 X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 4 2 . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:

Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Leaving that stone to give me this many points in the corner? What a kyu-ish move. I'm clearly ahead now.


In seriousness, my plans:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . 8 . . 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I need to think if this is heinously unreasonable or not.
User avatar
Magicwand
Tengen
Posts: 4844
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:26 am
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
GD Posts: 0
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 504 times

Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



only move for me.... now the question is...can i tenuki???
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:

Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Let's see how this goes. I predict a big fight on the bottom (can't but hope eh?)
User avatar
Magicwand
Tengen
Posts: 4844
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:26 am
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
GD Posts: 0
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 504 times

Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i can not defend bottom with one move...so it is better left as is.
tenuki is not a good idea... but something everyone should think about before playing any move.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:

Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Going ahead with my plan. Playin the 3-4 in the corner allows him to make :w21: too valuable I think with an outside wall he can build. I am doing fine on corners now, I don't need a small last one to give him more outside thickness yet again, that's not the way of a nicely balanced game.
skydyr
Oza
Posts: 2495
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:06 am
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Location: DC
Has thanked: 156 times
Been thanked: 436 times

Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by skydyr »

@topazg:
Did you look at the approach at the 5-3 point (P3) or 3-3 point (R3)?
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:

Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by topazg »

@skydyr:

3-3, yes, and rejected for the same reasons - I don't want to encourage White to build outside thickness.

I'll be honest, I didn't look at the 5-3. My gut feeling is that encourages the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . , 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . 8 . . 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Which, whilst stable, doesn't put the pressure on :w21: I'm hoping to do. I haven't read the full continuations out in enough detail, but I'm happy with both:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . 8 . . 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This, creating a relatively hard to attack group whilst putting Black under a lot of pressure, and:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , 9 . 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . 7 8 . a . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This, allowing White some stability at the cost of giving me some reasonable play in the corner. I need to read the aji at "a" carefully before playing the kick though.
User avatar
Magicwand
Tengen
Posts: 4844
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:26 am
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
GD Posts: 0
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 504 times

Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . 7 . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:

Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by topazg »

:shock:

Will think about this. My gut feeling is that this just can't be sensible. Which normally means he has a trick up his sleeve.
User avatar
Magicwand
Tengen
Posts: 4844
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:26 am
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
GD Posts: 0
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 504 times

Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by Magicwand »

was it a overplay??? no!
i thought about other options and didnt like them.
option 1
very easy to stablize black group.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . 6 . 8 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . 0 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


option 2
same...too easy for black.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X 0 X . . . , . . 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 . . 1 . 8 . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


since i already have influence...i can get away with this funny move...
more influence i build...my influence will grow exponentally.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

Just take cash? 4th line territory, not too shabby?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . 1 X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:

Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by topazg »

Initial reactions are obvious:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . 7 b . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . a 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's a contact play, and ignoring it with his stones around sounds like a good path to pain. "b" I don't particularly like. It's splitting White from his corner stone, but that's a big gap and the stone is on the 4th line, so there's nothing severe enough about it, and it doesn't get any points. "a" on the other hand starts to make points, settles my group, and allows a really large corner slide:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . 9 7 . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . 8 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So this is winning comfortably out of those two choices. I toyed with some other ideas:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . 7 . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . b . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


These were the main two, being prepared to sac :b26: for attacking :w21: in the hope there's still plenty of aji left in the corner. But, it feels convoluted and could get complex, as well as potentially giving magicwand a really big lower right corner. The whole reason for considering alternatives was because I didn't want to give magicwand thickness again, but I can't really avoid that. I think my purpose instead should be to gain enough profit that the thickness is insufficient to catch up the points difference. I think I'm pulling a fairly decent points lead right now, if I can extend that further, and keep my groups stable, I can turn the game into "don't let magicwand make too many points" which is more in my comfort zone.

Will post a move tomorrow.
User avatar
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 am
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Location: Chatteris, UK
Has thanked: 1579 times
Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:

Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by topazg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . 7 . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . 8 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, I'm set. This offers much more stability to Black - it's not 4th line territory despite appearances because of the low position of :w21: , but I should get some points from it. To be honest, I can't see how this position can favour White even locally, let alone globally:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . 9 7 . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . 8 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Which makes me suspicious that maybe White is planning on omitting :w29: , and using the aji of :w21: to resist after I hane:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . 0 7 . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , a 8 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hoping that the cut at "a" is now harder for Black to resist with :w21: on the board. Thing is, I'm not convinced, and I think this could be even worse for White, but magicwand must have a plan, and he does like the whole "tenuki for seizing initiative" thing, so I'm keeping my eyes out for something like this.
User avatar
Magicwand
Tengen
Posts: 4844
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:26 am
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
GD Posts: 0
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 504 times

Re: #190 - topazg vs magicwand

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . 9 7 . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . 8 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
Post Reply