#191: Otenki vs Unusedname

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Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname

Post by Unusedname »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i don't like this at all. I really don't want this to become an avalanche game where i lose because i didn't know the variations.

3rd line territory is supposed to be even. so if he tries to take the corner i'll extend then turn on him and approach his 4-4 stone.

otherwise i get to keep the corner and he needs to make a move on the right so that i don't just negate his wall.

then i can get the last corner.
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Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname

Post by otenki »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X X X . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Booh no complicated joseki. :tmbdown: Ok then I need to think of a new plan while I build more wall :-)
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Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X X X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O O O X 2 . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


so now i want to turn on his group
i see a cut point but i'm not sure how to exploit it
as far as i can tell simply extending along the side is good enough to defend it

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think a is the only move otherwise i turn and his position starts to crumble.

I don't know why i'm getting nervous already, i feel like i'm in a bad position but I know that's ridiculous.
I'm not sure what part of the game is my strength, but the fact that otenki wanted to play out the avalanche joseki is psychologically intimidating.
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Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname

Post by otenki »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X X X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O O O X 2 . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


5-3 ! Pseudo influence from the shin fuseki era :-)
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Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



lots of thoughts.
this is a type of playstyle i'm not very accustomed to.
Most games i have sente a majority of the match


I did expect him to eventually play the 3-5 stone based on his other game.

but this seems the wrong time to tenuki.

if only because i can turn and he has to respond.

i'm having trouble deciding where to play though

local
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I want to do A have him defend then extend along the side but a is too high.
so maybe c first

also thinking about B but then approach the 4-4 like i planned but then that helps him develop the bottom.


3-3 invasion
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X 5 X O O O . . . . . 1 X X X 3 . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . O O O X 2 . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


part of me wants to invade the 3-3 to see which side he chooses almost 90% sure he'll block the side.
this would make turning unneccessary and then i can just play at c

but now i'm not sure that's a good idea because of the 5-3 stone.



dealing with the 5-3 stone
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
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$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think i'll approach somewhere around 5
make miai of a and b, but right now there is no rush for doing this.


in the end i decided this can't be a bad move.

threatens to develop the top side
threatens to cut the group

but now i'm having second thoughts cause it allows him to fix the cut indirectly
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Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname

Post by otenki »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X X X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 O O O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm pretty sure this is not joseki but... want to keep this complex so sabakiing out of there. I thought about P14 but then he can harras me also while developing so no thanks.
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Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname

Post by Unusedname »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . 1 X X X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 O O O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


first thoughts are relieved.

i still have the ability to harass this group and i think the cut is targetable later on although i really want to do it now.

I think play this side white backs off then i'll go with my 3-5 approach plan
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Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname

Post by otenki »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . 1 X X X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 O O O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Works nicly with my 5-3 stone. Is risky business howhever.
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Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . 1 X X X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 O O O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
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$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . 9 , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i feel like the only move is the double approach

but i never feel like the result is actually all that beneficial for black.

white attaches to my top stone then my bottom stone looks very lonely

i'm tempted to just do one point jump and start to expand and maybe build a moyo off the weakness at the top right.

maybe i should just take the big point at K4 and make him enclose his corner.

i think i'll go with the big point

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . 1 X X X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 O O O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 9 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


next i'll play around a to pressure the white group

if he fixes that group i'll see about either double approaching or taking the corner away from his 3-5 stone.

the reason i changed the placement of 9 is because at 9 white still has a 2 space extension

also it looks better for picnering a one space approach to my 4-4 stone
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Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname

Post by The Intrepid »

@otenki
otenki wrote:Works nicly with my 5-3 stone. Is risky business howhever.
Could you elaborate what risk you perceive?
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
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Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname

Post by otenki »

The Intrepid wrote:@otenki
otenki wrote:Works nicly with my 5-3 stone. Is risky business howhever.
Could you elaborate what risk you perceive?


Invasion at c14 for example but I guess thats not a problem then i'll push him in the corner.
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Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname

Post by otenki »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . 1 X X X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . O . 0 . . . , . . 5 O O O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . 9 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Build influence for use with my (18) stone.
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Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname

Post by Unusedname »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O 1 . . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


hmm not sure how to feel about this
but this is something i do not want to tenuki from.

still eyeing the top right
bottom right
bottom left

also i now see the benefit of playing white
for some reasons i thought we would be taking turns updating the diagram.
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Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname

Post by otenki »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 2 . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O 1 . . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Fight! :rambo:
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Re: #191: Otenki vs Unusedname

Post by Unusedname »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 2 . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O 3 O 1 . . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


interesting

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 2 3 . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O 6 O 1 . . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . 7 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

this is my first reaction but that seems to give white too much
although i really do want to develop this up and outward.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 X 2 . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O 4 O 1 5 . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 X 2 . . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O 3 O 1 . . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . 6 4 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 7 X 2 a . . . . X X X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O 3 O 1 . . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . b 6 4 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i think i'm getting too attached to this top territory

if i take the corner from white he ends up with a wall facing my thickness so i take his corner and we both get nothing on the side.

now he has to defend

i'm a little upset that he gets a ladder breaker

but who knows i might decide to ignore it
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