#193 TIM82 vs EdLee

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:42 am

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:29 am

for obs

below peep can be useful hangma sometime because of riding the rhythm.
10 years ago i would have thought that it is a good way to attack because i make black heavy. my rank didnt change much from 10 years ago.
but now my thought is different. It is making black heavy but also it is making it strong.
very strong player once told me that he can feel the strength increasing after the peep on similar shape.
i didnt feel that before....but now i understand what he meant by that.

so below peep... is it good for white???
very hard to say...but i would be careful with such peep because it might hurt white more than help.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm41 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . 4 . 1 . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

to elaborate on what i said above.. white 4 is most likely course of action after peep.
but maybe white want something like below to attack him by taking eye space and stablizing his group.
then peep would be a bad move that will take this choice away...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm41 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . 3 . 1 . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

conclusion: i can not say that peep is a good move or bad move...but if i was white i would see what other option is available before making that choice.
get in habbit of thinking many different option before placing your move and your go game will improve.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:37 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm43 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . X 1 . O . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:48 pm

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:11 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm43 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . X 1 . O . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

did not consider Ed's last move for some reason. Any (s)lower move for me now, and Black will create a wall here, or with A I'll be pushing the black group towards centre from behind, which does not look good. I tried to check the various cuts against my group here, think I'm ok, let's see. This move has also an effect on right, and if Ed defends right, B seems at least initially playable .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm43 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . X 1 a O . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . b O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Btw. In my last post, of options A and B, would have played the cap on top.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:06 am

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:10 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm45 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . X X . O . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:14 am

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:33 pm

Ed:

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:00 pm

Shaddy,

I thought

may have miai of something like (a) and (b),
but I'm not sure; will find out either after the game, or, when Tim does something soon.
Originally, I was worried the bottom may become too big for W;
again, I was not sure about this assessment -- dunno if :b39:

was too deep, too early, or jealous.
After :b45:

, the center group seems OK-ish; there may be some funny business
in the (c) area, but again, I'm not sure about the timing. Will have to wait.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm44 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . b . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . X X . O . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . O c . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

I have a lot of uncertainties in this game; two unfamiliar joseki (UL and LL corners).
Mostly I'm treating it as a nice learning experience.
Have been looking forward to the review for some time now.

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:55 pm

Ed:

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:25 pm

Shaddy,

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:34 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm45 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . X X . O . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:50 am

I can't see a particularly appealing move on bottom. The only relevant cut I see there is at A below. Most other can be solved by playing at A (or B). For the cut at A, I think direct responses fail, but with some moves against bottom right corner I should be ok? I any case, I wanted to get to top corner first.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm45 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . X X . O . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . O . a . . X . . | $$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . b . , . . . | $$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Something like this seems ok? After this moves around A seem to serve two purposes: generate a moyo at top and attacking black stones below.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm47 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O 3 4 . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . 1 5 . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . 6 . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . X X . O . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

This I wanted to avoid.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm46 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 6 . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . 1 2 . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . 3 . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . X X . O . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

This I wanted to avoid too.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm46 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . X X . O . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:47 am

Life In 19x19

#193 TIM82 vs EdLee

Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee

Re:

Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee

Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee

Re:

Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee