5-3 joseki in pro games

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Hanmanchu
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5-3 joseki in pro games

Post by Hanmanchu »

Hi everyone,

in Ishida's dictionary of basic joseki, a few long variations are given starting from the following 5-3 point joseki:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . X . .
$$ | . . O . . . .
$$ | . . 2 1 . . .
$$ | . . a 3 . . .
$$ | . . 4 5 . . .
$$ | . . 6 7 . . .
$$ | . . . 8 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]
Now if black plays a and cuts, matters can become difficult.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . X . .
$$ | . . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . .
$$ | . 2 1 X . . .
$$ | . . O X . . .
$$ | . . O X . . .
$$ | . . 3 O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]
I find the following variations given by Ishida very interesting and quite difficult to understand. I am really interested if the given sequence occurs in pro games - maybe someone could give me a hint here?
Twitchy Go
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Re: 5-3 joseki in pro games

Post by Twitchy Go »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . d b X . .
$$ | . . O . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . .
$$ | . 2 1 X . . .
$$ | . . O X . . .
$$ | . . O X . . .
$$ | . . 3 O c . .
$$ | . . a . . . .[/go]
Searching with Gogod+kombillo with the search defined to these dimensions I found 58 pro games.
A:played 34 times
B:played 12 times
C:played 10 times
D:played 2 times
Let me know if you wanted more information.
Edit: My version of gogod has 70178 games to give a sense of how common this sequence is.
Hanmanchu
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Re: 5-3 joseki in pro games

Post by Hanmanchu »

Hi Twitchy Go,

thx for the quick answer! Unfortunately, I can not look for patters, I own smartgo which comes with a large game database though. The numbers you give seem to indicate that the sequence it not that uncommon or is it just the opposite?

I am particulary interested in how the position comes up in games. Could you give me one or two games with names/date?

According to Ishida (in the local joseki context etc.), of the moves in your diagram, (a) is the strongest response, (d) is not mentioned.
Twitchy Go
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Re: 5-3 joseki in pro games

Post by Twitchy Go »

Some games with the pattern.
a)Paek Hong-seok vs Cho Hun-hyeon 2007-12-08
Yamashita Keigo vs Cho Chikun 2006-03-27
Yang Chae-ho vs Yi Ch'ang-ho 1995-08-09
b)Honinbo Shuei vs Ito Kotaro 1898-11-20
Yang Chae-ho vs Cho Hun-hyeon 1994-11-07
Oeda Yusuke vs Magari Reiki 1974-05-23
c)Inoue Ichiro vs Go Seigen 1929-07-24
Liu Xiaoguang vs Nie Weiping 1991-07-17
Imamura Toshiya vs Mizokami Tomochika 2009-06-04
d)Li Yixiu vs Cao Xiaoyang 2006-12-04
Kitani Minoru vs Iwamoto Kaoru 1941-07-23

Names and dates transcribed straight from gogod. I'm not sure if romanization of names is always consistant across sources though... The dates will be right though.
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