What is your favorite rivalry?

Twitchy Go · Post by **Twitchy Go** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:57 pm

I've mentioned over in my little corner of L19x19 that I want to study some progames. More specifically multiple games played between the same two players,i.e.,rivals.
Being a very new player to go, having started a little over a year ago now, I don't really know the pro scene that well. So I turn to ya'll, what do you think are some of the cooler match ups out there, and why? These can be golden oldies like Cho Chikun and Kobayashi Koichi, or more recent stars such as Gu Li and Lee Sedol.

As an aside I searched the forum with the keyword rivalry and have already pulled these match ups together.
Go Seigen-Kianti Minouru
Gu Li- Lee Sedol
Kobayashi Koichi-Takemiya Masaki
Kobayashi Koichi-Cho Chikun
Cho Chikun-Takemiya Maaki
Lee Changho-Cho Hun-hyeon

So in closing the goal of this thread is two fold.
1)Get some recommendations of pro match ups to review.
2)Let everyone know who you think has the most rocking rivalry!

I look forward to every ones thoughts.
Regards,
-TwitchyGo

lemmata · Post by **lemmata** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:16 pm

An Younggil (8P) over at gogameguru.com has many fantastic reviews of pro games. Among those games are several Lee Sedol-Gu Li games.

Lee Sedol vs Gu Li – 17th Samsung Cup Final – Game 2
Gu Li vs Lee Sedol – 17th Samsung Cup Final – Game 1
Gu Li vs Lee Sedol – Quadruple ko – 17th Samsung Cup
Lee Sedol vs Gu Li – 3rd BC Card Cup Game 5
Gu Li vs Lee Sedol – 3rd BC Card Cup Game 4

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:56 pm

I'm not sure if it's a rivalry, but Iyama Yuta VS Yamashita Keigo was the first one that came to mind.

macelee · Post by **macelee** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:31 pm

My opinion is that to qualify to be 'rivalry', the two players should be playing a lot of games against each other and the results should not be very one-sided.

A good example: Gu Li (16 win 1 draw 16 loss) vs. Lee Sedol

These pairs can be found on Go4Go. Go to http://www.go4go.net and click Search by Players from menu, then click Most Active Players, choose a top player on the list and click By Opponents. Lots of interesting statistics there.

Twitchy Go · Post by **Twitchy Go** » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:18 pm

I like An Younggils commentary, thanks for taking the time to pull the links lemmata.
And hailthorn, even if it's not a rivalry per se. There has to be a lot to learn from games between two title holders, thanks for sharing those exciting games.
And a big thanks to you macelee. I did not know about go4go, and that search method finds me exactly what I want.
Another fun statistic: Lee Changho vs Lee Sedol. 31 wins each :mrgreen:

But please everyone, feel free to keep sharing. I know I plan on posting awesome pro games. Although I'll probably put it in my study journal viewtopic.php?f=48&t=5828 instead of here. After all why else would I have a journal if not to put cool things in it ;-)

P.S. I'll limit it to super-awesome-mega-cool games, as I usually am excited about most anything played at a high level :lol:

SmoothOper · Post by **SmoothOper** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:07 am

Twitchy Go wrote:I've mentioned over in my little corner of L19x19 that I want to study some progames. More specifically multiple games played between the same two players,i.e.,rivals.
Being a very new player to go, having started a little over a year ago now, I don't really know the pro scene that well. So I turn to ya'll, what do you think are some of the cooler match ups out there, and why? These can be golden oldies like Cho Chikun and Kobayashi Koichi, or more recent stars such as Gu Li and Lee Sedol.

As an aside I searched the forum with the keyword rivalry and have already pulled these match ups together.
Go Seigen-Kianti Minouru
Gu Li- Lee Sedol
Kobayashi Koichi-Takemiya Masaki
Kobayashi Koichi-Cho Chikun
Cho Chikun-Takemiya Maaki
Lee Changho-Cho Hun-hyeon

So in closing the goal of this thread is two fold.
1)Get some recommendations of pro match ups to review.
2)Let everyone know who you think has the most rocking rivalry!

I look forward to every ones thoughts.
Regards,
-TwitchyGo

Interesing thread. I don't think Cho Chikun and Takemiya were really all that intense rivals or Takemiya and Kobayashi either, mostly Takemiya was just too likeable, and didn't have the greediness that Cho Chikun and Kobayashi Koichi had. That being said they did have some epic games.

BaghwanB · Post by **BaghwanB** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:06 am

I've always had a soft spot for Yamashita Keigo v. Hane Naoki. Maybe it was just the point in my personal go career when I started paying attention to current pro games, but some of their bouts just seem like a fascinating level of play.

In some Keigo seems to scatter stones across the board and then pull them all together in the nick of time. When it works, it looks like magic. When it fails, he falls on his face given his opponent's level here.

Bruce "Fanboy" Young

macelee · Post by **macelee** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:15 am

SmoothOper wrote:Interesing thread. I don't think Cho Chikun and Takemiya were really all that intense rivals or Takemiya and Kobayashi either, mostly Takemiya was just too likeable, and didn't have the greediness that Cho Chikun and Kobayashi Koichi had. That being said they did have some epic games.

I read that Takemiya and Kobayashi did not get along very well in real life. So in that sense they are rivals.

Monadology · Post by **Monadology** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:07 am

BaghwanB wrote:I've always had a soft spot for Yamashita Keigo v. Hane Naoki. Maybe it was just the point in my personal go career when I started paying attention to current pro games, but some of their bouts just seem like a fascinating level of play.

In some Keigo seems to scatter stones across the board and then pull them all together in the nick of time. When it works, it looks like magic. When it fails, he falls on his face given his opponent's level here.

Bruce "Fanboy" Young

That sounds very interesting. Do you have any examples you could share?

hyperpape · Post by **hyperpape** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:16 am

macelee wrote:
SmoothOper wrote:Interesing thread. I don't think Cho Chikun and Takemiya were really all that intense rivals or Takemiya and Kobayashi either, mostly Takemiya was just too likeable, and didn't have the greediness that Cho Chikun and Kobayashi Koichi had. That being said they did have some epic games.

I read that Takemiya and Kobayashi did not get along very well in real life. So in that sense they are rivals.

Takemiya called Kobayashi's style "subway go" if the lore on Sensei's can be beleived: http://senseis.xmp.net/?SubwayGo.

BaghwanB · Post by **BaghwanB** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:29 am

Here is (IMO) a good one:

Twitchy Go · Post by **Twitchy Go** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:09 pm

I love the game BaghwanB. I started clicking through the sgf and then stopped to stare at :b9:

. I then scrolled up to see who was good at scattering stones around the board and magically pulling them together.(Come to find out it was Black) Yamashito Keigo definitely has an interesting sense for the direction of play it seems. :lol:

helofloki · Post by **helofloki** » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:40 pm

Not creative, but definitely Gu Li and Lee Sedol. You cannot deny how amazing their games are. And they play so often too. I think we're lucky to be in the midst of it. A very even match up, two extremely interesting styles, always exciting games. Quadruple Ko. What more could you ask for?

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