#197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


For observers:
Much to my surprise, this is becoming a semi-moyo game. I expected running groups with lots of fighting. MW is full of surprises.

By semi-moyo, I mean that each side is a move or two away from making big territory: he up top, and me on the left. Let's look at his first.

I have a potential invasion point around 'a'. That tends to make a move around 'b' sente for white. On the other side, 'c' is sente for white and can be followed up with something like 'd'. White's upper side can grow surprisingly quickly.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . |
$$ | . a a . . b . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . d . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The horsehead move at N15 neutralizes any advance that he may make against my left side. In any such echange, I would get territory, but N15 would be already reducing his attempted territory from the back side. It of course nips in the bud any attempt to expand the right moyo wall with 'c'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . B . c . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Then there is the possibilities for my left side expanding into a moyo. If I get more strength in the lower left...

The attachment at H16 is looming since black has N15 to attack the white 2-space extension.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . 2 3 7 O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O 1 4 5 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 6 . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |[/go]


So white may choose a different defense:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . 4 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . 0 2 3 . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . 9 O 1 6 8 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 5 7 . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |[/go]


The above may not be optimal play, but it illustrates the general idea of black feigning an invasion to get a wall along the 15th rank.
So N15 indirectly helps the growth of my left side.

On top of all of this, N15 gives my upper right group a good direction of play - now that the previous direction has been stymied by white's Q12. It opens up several complex invasions around M18.


So, what is going to happen in the future?

I expected :w1:. It seems the easiest way to get some toehold on the lower half of the board, becaise Q12 is over there. ( Actually, K3 is the easiest way, but MW would rather eviscerate himself with a dull spoon than play something so passive. Maybe it is more accurate to say that R6 is the easiest active way to get a toehold. )

A pincer seems the only way to play here. If I were to play something around 'a', then he can play 2 or 'b' himself, and start getting easy territory.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . W . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . a . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So we are heading to a running fight. Everybody runs westward. There are 5 stones ( circled ) on the board that might exert some influence to eventually affect the result.
Four of those five are mine. :D
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

For observers:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:...
A pincer seems the only way to play here.

I didn't proceed from that to a decision of which pincer.

The problem with both of the close pincers is that they can be threatened too easily, often in a manner that gets Q12 involved. I want a pincer that not only attacks white's most recent move, but that keeps Q12 isolated. One of my long term goals is to kill Q12 on a large scale and take big territory on the right side and upper right side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Tight pincer
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 4 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Another tight pincer
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 4 . X . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Even a looser pincer can be profitably attacked if it is low:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 4 . X . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So the pincer that I chose is high and 2-space.
Below is one possible version of it, chosen almost at random, but which illustrates how it is possible to prevent white from connecting to Q12:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Another tight pincer
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 3 O 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . 8 7 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


====================================================

BTW, I expect his next move to be this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He will probably try complicate matters so that in the confusion he can increase the strength of 1 so that he can attack 2.

This, IMHO, will be the guiding theme for both players in the next ten moves or so: white will try to bypass or capture the pincer stone, and black will try to hold and strengthen it.
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by topazg »

I predict this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Magicwand
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
no comment needed for this move...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 2 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . B . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This one is forced
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Magicwand
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


let me see if i can out muscle him and force him to make mistake.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 3 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

For observers:
He can't be serious. :o There are so many ways to push out.
The whole point of the high 2-space pince was that he can't do this.

All I have to do is find a balanced way of pushing out, so that he does not end up too strong anyplace.
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

To all: business is piling up, so it may be a few days until I get back to this.
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . B . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This attack is so loose that white cannot really kill in one move. Even if he plays a fifth stone to attack mine, I can either slice my way out, or sacrifice so as to get a very nice wall.

So before we play the right side, I'm going to ask him what he wants to do up top.

Does he want to mantain his territory in gote - and give me more influence - like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . O O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . B . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

...or does he want to give me an easy invasion that turns his top side into two 5-point groups struggling to live?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . B W . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


I'm going to make him commit himself first before I decide how to play the right side.


Beginner note:
When invading/reducing a 3-space extension between a 4th rank stone and a 3rd rank stone, there are three classic starting points.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . C . O . . . . . . .
$$ . . . O C . C . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Note that I am taking one of the three, and my followup will probably be one or even both of the remaining two.
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Magicwand
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . W X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
just a word of advice to sdks
when you are playing high dan player with handycap stones... give them much respect as possible and beat them using that handycap.
my opponent is trying to squeeze some bright ideas out of his brain but that appears to be a mistake and giving me a chance to overcome 3 stone handy.

basically..if you fight stronger players then you lose. try to avoid fight if you can.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Uberdude »

I mostly agree with Magicwand that Joaz is trying to be too fancy and giving MW a chance to complicate which is what he wants. That area of the board is totally not the focus, the cap on the right side is super hot. Joaz absolutely must get sente to return there but that is far from clear. What he says about not dying if white plays another move might be true but misses the point: if he has to make white strong to escape it sucks. he should run out because then white has 2 weak groups and black is attacking white rather than vice versa.

But what MW said about avoiding fights I kinda disagree with, Welcome fights where you have a big advantage (which you often do with the handicap stones). Submissive play is the greatest sin of handicap Go. But avoid fights where white has the advantage, like this foolish adventure Joaz has embarked on.
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Kirby »

Personally, I liked Joaz's spirit in his last move. As I respect U.Dude's and MW's strenghts, I read their comments and reconsidered my position... I think they are right that Joaz's last play was not really where the action is.

But being kyuish myself, I would respond to Joaz's last move passively, and let him have his way with me.

So, I commend Joaz for playing a move that would have gotten me :-D
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O a O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger: if white 'a', then black'b'.

Well, MW is determined not to play the least bit submissively...even at the expense of leaving lots of dubious aji. I got what I wanted: a path into the middle of his intended territory, AND a clear statement that he intends to come out of this fight with a wall. That is the only way that his last move makes sense - he intends to leave the invasion available, secure in the belief that he can kill the invaders as they run out.

So...that tells me that I do not want this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . C . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . C 1 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He would try to build a wall at the circled points.

As I played it, he may get some outside strength, but it will be further away from his weaknesses up top. I know which direction I want to go. Now it is time to fight. :rambo:
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Magicwand
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Re: #197 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: none
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X W . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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