One Of The Best...Ever?

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:31 pm

It may be too soon to broach this topic, but maybe not. Do you think Iyama Yuta will go down as one of the best Japanese Go players of all time? He was the fastest to reach professional 9 Dan in Japan and it's very possible that he could hold all seven of the big titles simultaneously this year. Nothing is a given, of course. But I fully expect him to win both the Kisei (Up 1 currently) and the Meijin titles this year.

So what do y'all think?

p2501 · Post by **p2501** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:23 pm

I really hope it happens. People will write books about it. I love books

oren · Post by **oren** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:28 pm

It depends on staying power, but I'd guess he will go down as one of the top Japanese players of all time.

badukJr · Post by **badukJr** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:03 pm

I think the fact that he bounces out in the first round prelims of world tournaments speaks more about the overall quality of Japanese Go than him being a great player.

xed_over · Post by **xed_over** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:53 pm

Have you seen his NHK game from this week?
井山。無限。(not sure what this means (Iyama. Infinite.), its the comment on the Empat Puluh site http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~bg2t-tkg/nhk/nhk.html (this link will be a different game next week))

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:05 pm

xed_over wrote:... (this link will be a different game next week))

I'll save it for posterity. ( Iyama is white )

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:22 pm

badukJr wrote:I think the fact that he bounces out in the first round prelims of world tournaments speaks more about the overall quality of Japanese Go than him being a great player.

But as long as there is a clear group of his contemporaries that he can not successfully compete with, I think it would be nonsense to label him the "best". Unless he can raise the level of his game to current international standards, he will just be another so-so pro (the big frog in an increasingly irrelevant, though wealthy, pond). He will likely make more money as a pro than anyone else, so for a certain definition of "best pro" he might fit the bill. However, for any definition based on demonstrated ability and competitive results, I think not. The worst part is that there does not seem to be any likely changes in the near term to the professional organizations in Japan (Nihon and Kansai Kiin) to foster the levels of study and improvement that might raise Japanese pros in general to those international standards or alternatively would grow a new crop of youngsters that would be able to compete.

cdybeijing · Post by **cdybeijing** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:34 am

I had always been under the impression that Iyama was able to compete with the top international players but chose to devote his time to the domestic titles as they have richer purses and are quite demanding time wise. Perhaps I thought this because I remember the CJK mingren mini-tournament from last year which he won.

lovelove · Post by **lovelove** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:36 am

cdybeijing wrote:I had always been under the impression that Iyama was able to compete with the top international players but chose to devote his time to the domestic titles as they have richer purses and are quite demanding time wise. Perhaps I thought this because I remember the CJK mingren mini-tournament from last year which he won.

Iyama also won Gu Li 9p and Choi Cheolhan 9p in a row in 2011 Fujitsu cup.

golem7 · Post by **golem7** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:07 am

lovelove wrote:
cdybeijing wrote:I had always been under the impression that Iyama was able to compete with the top international players but chose to devote his time to the domestic titles as they have richer purses and are quite demanding time wise. Perhaps I thought this because I remember the CJK mingren mini-tournament from last year which he won.

Iyama also won Gu Li 9p and Choi Cheolhan 9p in a row in 2011 Fujitsu cup.

Yes, 2011 was a good year for him internationally. He also beat Lee Sedol and Gu Li back to back when he won the Bosai Cup (I think this is what you're referring to, cdybeijing?). It's a shame he doesn't play more international tournaments, though.

Btw. concerning early round losses: last year Lee Sedol lost in the 2nd round of both the LG and Ing Cup, both to lower ranking professionals. This can always happen in knock-out tournaments, you need more data to judge his strength. Does anyone know his score against the world's best? It seems he didn't really play outside of Japan in the last year or so. Maybe if he gets all 7 titles he'll switch to the international stage?

Sumatakyo · Post by **Sumatakyo** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:14 am

ez4u wrote:Unless he can raise the level of his game to current international standards

What does this mean "International Standard"? Aren't we just talking about Korea and China here? And the cream of the crop at that?

Korea and China might definitely be stronger in general, but its two countries, not the world.
Also, Iyama Yuta would be one of the strongest in those countries too, just not necessarily #1.

badukJr · Post by **badukJr** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:33 am

cdybeijing wrote:I had always been under the impression that Iyama was able to compete with the top international players but chose to devote his time to the domestic titles as they have richer purses and are quite demanding time wise. Perhaps I thought this because I remember the CJK mingren mini-tournament from last year which he won.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call someone who only plays hard for money one of the greats. Its an affront to the beauty of the game.

jts · Post by **jts** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:16 am

badukJr wrote:
cdybeijing wrote:I had always been under the impression that Iyama was able to compete with the top international players but chose to devote his time to the domestic titles as they have richer purses and are quite demanding time wise. Perhaps I thought this because I remember the CJK mingren mini-tournament from last year which he won.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call someone who only plays hard for money one of the greats. Its an affront to the beauty of the game.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't call someone who only plays hard in three-hour games one of the greats. It's an affront to the beauty of the game.

macelee · Post by **macelee** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:42 pm

Iyama hasn't played many international games. Following is a partial list of him against top Korean/Chinese:

0-3 vs Chen Yaoye
1-2 vs Lee Sedol
1-2 vs Gu Li
0-3 vs Lee Changho
0-2 vs Xie He
0-2 vs Kong Jie
0-2 vs Kang Dongyun

The sample size is small and does not include games from several one-off events. However I will argue against him being one of the strongest.

[Edit] sorry missed these two sets:
1-1 vs Jiang Weijie
2-0 vs Yun Junsang

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:56 pm

macelee wrote:Iyama hasn't played many international games. Following is a partial list of him against top Korean/Chinese:

0-3 vs Chen Yaoye
1-2 vs Lee Sedol
1-2 vs Gu Li
0-3 vs Lee Changho
0-2 vs Xie He
0-2 vs Kong Jie
0-2 vs Kang Dongyun

The sample size is small and does not include games from several one-off events. However I will argue against him being one of the strongest.

Well, if he does well in the NHK Cup, I look forward to seeing how he does in the Asian TV Cup this year. Especially considering how well he's been performing at home in recent memory.

Life In 19x19

One Of The Best...Ever?

One Of The Best...Ever?

Re: One Of The Best...Ever?

Re: One Of The Best...Ever?

Re: One Of The Best...Ever?

Re: One Of The Best...Ever?

Re: One Of The Best...Ever?

Re: One Of The Best...Ever?

Re: One Of The Best...Ever?

Re: One Of The Best...Ever?

Re: One Of The Best...Ever?

Re: One Of The Best...Ever?

Re: One Of The Best...Ever?

Re: One Of The Best...Ever?

Re: One Of The Best...Ever?

Re: One Of The Best...Ever?