#201 drmwc vs lovelove

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Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove

Post by lovelove »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm61
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . X 0 . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This seems obvious.
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Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove

Post by drmwc »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X 1 X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Possible continuation:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X 1 X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O a . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


and B isn't doing badly - the stone at g12 is weak; my ponnuki is becoming stong and I have cut at a.


Here's another plan for W:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . a . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X 1 X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


at which point a or b looks playable for me. I will probably go for b, since it is expends my moyo while reducing W, whilst a doesn't really make territory yet for W. White b would make a resonable moyo.
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Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove

Post by Magicwand »

why not below???? this seems more logical IMO.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


possible continuation? what plans does b have after white's obvious move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 4 . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X 1 X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

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Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove

Post by Uberdude »

@Magicwand and obs:

Magicwand wrote:why not below???? this seems more logical IMO.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




That was my instinct too.

Magicwand wrote:possible continuation? what plans does b have after white's obvious move.




I know black, he likes to fight, so maybe cut?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X 1 X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove

Post by lovelove »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I can't understand why he didn't play this...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove

Post by Uberdude »

@drmwc,

Why not this extend? It's what lovelove, Magicwand, and me expected.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove

Post by Magicwand »

@Uberdude
below cut can not be good for black. my assessment say that black is ahead so dont need to fight.
also...that cut will stablize weak white group on the bottom and erase black influence.
all white have to do is play as below to accomplish that.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X 1 X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

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Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove

Post by Uberdude »

@MW,
Yeah, that cut didn't look very good to me either, just trying to find some reason for black's h10, and taking away white h9 sente makes the cut work a bit better perhaps, though still not good.
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Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove

Post by drmwc »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Including a reply to Ubderdude:

As before, this moves stabilises blacks group, remove W's moyo and gives me many cuts to aim at later. I still haven't found a fierce attack against my ponnuki.

In terms of the rough count I gave earlier, B has gained around 10 points on the RHS (more if I can enclose the corner finally), and points on the LHS. W may gain 10-15 points in the centre form the previous count, although this will take another move, so I believe that the game is slightly in B's favrou

Alternatives for this move included:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


74 is a key point, so I dislike this variation for me. (It's probably playable for B, but it's not clear cut.)

So this is an alternative to 73 above for me:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 4 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, the move at 71 in this variation is a loss without compensation, and so the game is better.


For the prveious move,

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 5 . X . X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X a . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is the natural sequence. W 74 is a good point. If I don't reply at 75, I may become quite thin with these two groups, as shown in the final diagram. Following 75, W can aim at a, for example (which may be payable immediately.)


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove

Post by lovelove »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think black has some difficulty to catch up komi.
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Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove

Post by drmwc »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm75
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . 1 . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's a complex position. I have many options.

One possibility is this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm75
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . b . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . 9 . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . O . . 8 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . 6 3 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , a 2 1 . 5 , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O 4 X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If W negelct to play at 80, I can aim at a.

Following this, I have around 50-55 points on the RHS. Top right is still 5 for me points.
I seem likley to get 10-15 points on the left, giving me 65-75 total.

W still has 20 top left, although he can expand this. He has a new central moyo around b with between 5 and 15 points. Bottom left is still 10 points. Lower side group is about 15-20 points. Total is 50-65 points plus komi. So it seems reasonably close, but W will need a very good move on the LHS to make the maximum there whilst restricitng me. I couldn't find anything, so if I'm right I have reasonable winning chances.

Other moves I considered where:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm75
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . O . . . c . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , a . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O d X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


a works well if W answers passively, but W may counterattack. d is similar to the game, but W' territory isn't particualrly well defined in the game. b doesn't seem to achieve very much.

c is interesting - it leave the corner open, but if W takes it immediately B is thick on the outside. However, the varation I chose feels more clear cut.
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Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove

Post by lovelove »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm75
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The game seems quite easy to me this way.
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Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove

Post by drmwc »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm75
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . X . 3 , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Possible continuation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm75
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . O . . . 8 7 . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . 6 5 . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . X 4 3 , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



If it goes like this, the count is similar to in my previous post. W needs a good device on the LHS.
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Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove

Post by lovelove »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm70
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . 0 9 . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . X 8 7 , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #201 drmwc vs lovelove

Post by drmwc »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm80
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . O . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . O . . O . O , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . O . X . . . . . . . O . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . O . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , . . X O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . O . . O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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