39. Magicwand (3d) vs. Kirby (1d)

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Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Post by hoohoo »

SpongeBob wrote:
Kirby wrote:To observers:
In playing these games, I am kind of curious: What makes me different than Magicwand? I guess you can get a feel for how I play vs. how he plays.

I have always thought that go is all about reading. When I lose games online, I often feel I have been outread... But I don't get this feeling with the Malkovich games, but sometimes I still end up behind...

What is the difference between Magicwand and me in this regard? Is there something other than reading that I am strategically weak at? Any patterns?

People brought up emotions before. Anything else? ... Or is it really all just reading, and I am not reading as well as I think I am?

P.S. If you read this and respond with a comment I can read, please address it "To Kirby", so I know I can read it.

Lot of people are mentioning psychological aspects. But I think this is overrated. There is a nice quote from Kageyama's book: "Recall the words of Yukichi Fukuzawa: 'Confidence is born of strength, and strength of confidence.'" Well, Magicwand has both and you are - in comparison to him - kind of missing both. I hope that this does not sound offending. You are a nice person, which makes people think you are easily attacked psychologically. But I think the reason for you losing these games - well, not this one, I'm confident - is plainly that he is the far more experienced and complete player. (I wonder why he is only KGS 3d - seems stronger to me ... but what can a 4 kyu tell ;-) ) Surely, you feel frightened by the white stones - but who wouldn't, given what he can do with them. I think you have to plainly learn from your mistakes. I would not think too much about that psychological thing. Again: Confidence is born of strength, and strength of confidence.


Well ofcourse confidence is born of strength, and strength of confidence but i think your missing a point. A point i tried to say but topazg more eloquently stated, namely hunger. If think of two choices, A is good but safe while B is probably better but riskier. Choosing B over A because you have confidence in your reading is different by choosing B over A because you think you can pull it off and want it.
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Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Post by SpongeBob »

hoohoo wrote:
Well ofcourse confidence is born of strength, and strength of confidence but i think your missing a point. A point i tried to say but topazg more eloquently stated, namely hunger. If think of two choices, A is good but safe while B is probably better but riskier. Choosing B over A because you have confidence in your reading is different by choosing B over A because you think you can pull it off and want it.

I might as well not hide it:
I am not sure if I am missing a point. I understood your remark well. But Kirby picked his moveds after carefull consideration and gave us explanations for why he did it. It turns out that his reasoning is wrong, sometimes. Now these are the mistakes he has to improve on. Surely, there are different styles, one is playing more solid, slow, peaceful and the other one more thin, fast, agressive. But I think you cannot go ahead and say 'Now I will play more hungrily.' It is part of your character, also. See Lee Chang-ho for example. Ok, Kirby was asking about what is the difference between him and Magicwand - so your comment is quite precise. However, I think Kirby's question was more aimed in the direction of what he needs to do in order to win against Magicwand, or generally, how he can get stronger. And this I tried to address with my post.
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Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Post by Kirby »

Spongebob,
Yes, I think I am weaker and it is not just a feeling. Why else would I keep losing? My question was mainly that I was curious if there were areas other than reading that I could fix. Because I do not feel like I have read bad, as much as having done bad in other areas. A lot of times in previous games, people have disagreed with comments that I wrote. These kinds of things are interesting to me.

On the other hand, maybe it is still just reading - which surprises me in a Malkovich game, which is why I was asking :)

OTOH, I probably don't read that well on a larger scale (when it involves stones jumping out). It is definitely a weak point of mine.
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Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
he might be in deep trouble depends on who he answer.
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Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I thought briefly about doing a tenuki, but I don't think that I can let him push my stone around so easily. I should respond normally... I can't justify to myself ignoring his move.

I thought about this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


but it doesn't seem to make much sense since it is so easy on white.
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Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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The greater the unknown"

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Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O B . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He is trying to attack my pincer stone. I could tenuki, but I should not, because I would lose too much in the local area.

This way, if he attacks my pincer stone, at least I get decent local profit.

If I played as follows, I would not necessarily:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . B X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think that this is the best move.
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Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . W . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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The greater the unknown"

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Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . B O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't want to get sealed in. Of course, he is attacking my stone. I'm OK with that, because he tenuki-ed the atari.
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Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . W . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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The greater the unknown"

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Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . B . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Post by Kirby »

Sigh...
be immersed
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Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have confidence that I can live in the bottom right. I must jump out with my stone, because I cannot let him have all of this side as his territory. It is a bit dangerous because my group in the center may become weak. But his group is not that strong on the left, either.

I don't see another option, because I cannot deal with this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Magicwand
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Re: 39. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 4

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . W . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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