He took longer to respond to my last move. Maybe he was just relaxing, but maybe that also means that he was planning. I had better do so, too.
I think I can turn this into a result where I come out ahead...
But it's break time for me.
I'll try to write more explanation in future posts. When Magicwand responds immediately, I always feel like playing immediately, too. I will slow down and explain my thoughts more.
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . W . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Never peep a niken tobi! Black's shape was thin here, now White releases Black of this burden. It seems that Black will get to defend on the top after all.
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . W . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Never peep a niken tobi! Black's shape was thin here, now White releases Black of this burden. It seems that Black will get to defend on the top after all.
Perhaps he was drunk. I hear you lose a stone worth of reading ability per beer
"You always have more ko threats then me" -Dusk Eagle
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . W . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Never peep a niken tobi! Black's shape was thin here, now White releases Black of this burden. It seems that Black will get to defend on the top after all.
Question for Harleqin:
The three white stones look weak to me and White has to do something about it. The peep does not lose sente and strengthens them a bit. What would be your proposal for White instead? Tenuki or play something different locally?
Stay out of my territory! (W. White, aka Heisenberg)
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X B . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Things are a bit complicated, but I think that I have to block here. I have three potentially weak groups. His group on the right isn't that strong, though. Also, I might be able to make his top right weak as well.
It will be complicated, but I should be able to live with everything. I need to start with this, though. I cannot think of another feasible option.
The three white stones look weak to me and White has to do something about it. The peep does not lose sente and strengthens them a bit. What would be your proposal for White instead? Tenuki or play something different locally?
That the white group on the right is so weak is mainly due to White playing in the centre instead of simply defending here.
One thing to keep in mind is that the white group in the top right currently is not too weak, as it can live anytime. However, one should take care that it does not get enclosed without time to defend. The group on the right side also has such points as S6 and R10 to make some rudimentary shape. Again, getting enclosed would be very bad. You can see how splitting such almost-alive groups makes things quite unpleasant for their owner.
I think that White should have played something like this:
$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . a X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . W . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . a X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . W . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Note the threat at 'a'. Depending on how Black answers, White would then have to look after one or the other group. It is complicated, but that happens when you do not help your weak stones.
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.
SpongeBob wrote: The peep does not lose sente and strengthens them a bit.
I would say that most bad moves are sente. This is a huge category, especially for typical "kyu mistakes". The problem is that the answer is worth more, sometimes even much more than the "sente move". One could trace this kind of error back to a lack of understanding of the first Go rule: "Both players alternate moves, playing one stone on their turn."
Note that I do not say that sente is bad; it is just that sente is no excuse at all for a bad move.
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.
One could trace this kind of error back to a lack of understanding of the first Go rule: "Both players alternate moves, playing one stone on their turn."
**SpongeBob goes away to meditate on this**
Stay out of my territory! (W. White, aka Heisenberg)
Magicwand wrote:he now has 3 weak groups. i think one will die. most urgent group is lower right corner. so i assume he will defend the corner as such. then i will take care of my one and only weak group. as below. then he will be left with 2 weak groups. i think i have a good chance of winning this game. lets go 5 stones!!
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X 2 . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . O . O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . O . O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . X . X . B . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I can hear people saying that this is a bad move already... But I don't like to play by proverbs - I like to play in a practical way that I understand...
Anyway, I see that I have two options:
1.) I could tenuki the bottom right. I keep trying to read a way to live, but I am not so sure that I can right now... So doing tenuki altogether will probably kill me.
2.) I can live in the bottom right.
In either case, I would like to prevent white from sliding in. But I'd like to do it in sente. For example, if I play like this, white can slide in at "a" when he wants to:
$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . O . O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . a . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . O . O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . X . a . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . X . O X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
So I'd like to have the move I chose in the game in, in sente. But if I don't play this now, I don't think it will be very sente.
White might ignore later...
So I want to play this now. Based on how he responds, I will see if I can tenuki from the bottom right... I'll probably have to play another move in the bottom right, though.
