Was my invasion correct?

kylefoley76 · Post by **kylefoley76** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:17 am

In the attachments you will see that I invaded at g18. I'm Black. White had the whole top of the board and I was getting nervous that they were taking up too much territory in the top, so I decided to invade though it looked like a rather risky invasion. The invasion ultimately worked in the sense that my unit was not captured. I did ultimately win the game by 6 points. If you want to see the whole sgf file you can. The invasion is at move 47. The first attachment shows the invasion after about 15 moves after the invasion, the second attachment shows the invasion when it was done. I was 16k and my opponent was 14k.

lovelove · Post by **lovelove** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:35 am

"Was my invasion correct?"
No.

tj86430 · Post by **tj86430** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:51 am

Since you have the sgf, why not use the (excellent) sgf-tags the forum provides. Like this:

kylefoley76 · Post by **kylefoley76** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:56 am

I guess I underestimated the power of the sgf tages. Like I said my invasion is at move 47.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:53 am

kylefoley76 wrote:Like I said my invasion is at move 47.

See lovelove's reply, Post #2.

schawipp · Post by **schawipp** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:27 am

If white on move 70 plays D19 (not E19 or F19 as in the game), I can not see how your invasion survives.

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:12 am

And continuing from the last post (3 is actually redundant as "a" and "b" are miai):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W70 $$ ---------------- $$ |.4312b.aX...... $$ |5.XOX.XXOXXOO.. $$ |.X.OXX..OO.X.O. $$ |.XOOOO...O.O... $$ |.XXXXO......... $$ |.O..........O.X $$ |..O.O.......... $$ |......O........[/go]

Now you get to die on both sides

Unusedname · Post by **Unusedname** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:14 pm

I think your invasion is wrong because your corner group is weak so making white any stronger might end up killing you.

Also look at the white group it seems to be very strongly connected. to each other or out towards the center so there is no way you could split white's stones into weak groups.

Amelia · Post by **Amelia** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:47 pm

I'm interested, because this looks like the kind of pitfalls I run into.
kylefoley played that move because the top of the board looked so overwhelmingly white. Is the situation actually bad for him? Does he need to invade somehow at this point? Or can he get away with just reduction?
While white's potential territory on the top looks big, Black has some nice framework on the right and lower sides. It occurs to me that if he uses these stones to extend towards the center, quite a bit of the potential white territory on the top half might disappear.
Or is it too late and should he have done something about it earlier?

xed_over · Post by **xed_over** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:12 pm

kylefoley76 wrote: White had the whole top of the board and I was getting nervous that they were taking up too much territory in the top, so I decided to invade though it looked like a rather risky invasion.

What you have there is territory envy

Many of us suffer from it. The cure is to learn to count.

I don't think you need to invade, to me it looks like black is ahead so far. So you should either make your territory more secure, or just reduce white (or better yet, find a way to do both at the same time).

Something like 'a' instead of :b47:

looks really big to me (but I'm not all that strong, and this is the weakest part of my game)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm47 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . O . . . . . O . X . | $$ | . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . a . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . X O O X X X . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

kylefoley76 · Post by **kylefoley76** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:06 pm

xed_over wrote:
kylefoley76 wrote: White had the whole top of the board and I was getting nervous that they were taking up too much territory in the top, so I decided to invade though it looked like a rather risky invasion.

What you have there is territory envy

Many of us suffer from it. The cure is to learn to count.

I don't think you need to invade, to me it looks like black is ahead so far. So you should either make your territory more secure, or just reduce white (or better yet, find a way to do both at the same time).

Something like 'a' instead of looks really big to me (but I'm not all that strong, and this is the weakest part of my game)

You should display your rank. I'm not sure I should listen to you since I don't know what your rank is.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:58 pm

kylefoley76 wrote:
xed_over wrote:
kylefoley76 wrote: White had the whole top of the board and I was getting nervous that they were taking up too much territory in the top, so I decided to invade though it looked like a rather risky invasion.

What you have there is territory envy

Many of us suffer from it. The cure is to learn to count.

I don't think you need to invade, to me it looks like black is ahead so far. So you should either make your territory more secure, or just reduce white (or better yet, find a way to do both at the same time).

Something like 'a' instead of looks really big to me (but I'm not all that strong, and this is the weakest part of my game)

You should display your rank. I'm not sure I should listen to you since I don't know what your rank is.

I remember some years ago a number of us, including some dan players, were trying to solve a problem on Sensei's Library. The key play was found by a beginner.

Listen.

xed_over · Post by **xed_over** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:59 pm

kylefoley76 wrote:You should display your rank. I'm not sure I should listen to you since I don't know what your rank is.

LOL

my official KGS rank is: [?]

kylefoley76 · Post by **kylefoley76** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:53 pm

topazg wrote:And continuing from the last post (3 is actually redundant as "a" and "b" are miai):

$$W70
$$ ----------------
$$ |.4312b.aX......
$$ |5.XOX.XXOXXOO..
$$ |.X.OXX..OO.X.O.
$$ |.XOOOO...O.O...
$$ |.XXXXO.........
$$ |.O..........O.X
$$ |..O.O..........
$$ |......O........

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W70 $$ ---------------- $$ |.4312b.aX...... $$ |5.XOX.XXOXXOO.. $$ |.X.OXX..OO.X.O. $$ |.XOOOO...O.O... $$ |.XXXXO......... $$ |.O..........O.X $$ |..O.O.......... $$ |......O........[/go]

Now you get to die on both sides

Thank you for pointing that out.

jts · Post by **jts** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:56 pm

kylefoley76 wrote:
xed_over wrote:What you have there is territory envy

Many of us suffer from it. The cure is to learn to count.

I don't think you need to invade, to me it looks like black is ahead so far. So you should either make your territory more secure, or just reduce white (or better yet, find a way to do both at the same time).

Something like 'a' instead of looks really big to me (but I'm not all that strong, and this is the weakest part of my game)

You should display your rank. I'm not sure I should listen to you since I don't know what your rank is.

No offense, but at 16k you should take all the advice you get seriously. Trust me, if anyone tried to offer you genuinely bad advice, he would get smacked down pretty quickly. Go players are a belligerent bunch!

If you don't understand someone's advice, you should ask for a clarification... and don't accept "because I'm 4d" for an answer.

Life In 19x19

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