Proper way to improve your game?

[Nyine]

I got so many of those "uh-oh" moments I lost count of them The worst of them is when a whole wall of 20+ stones gets completely surrounded and killed. At those moments I think if I should play something like checkers instead Go

[Amelia]

@Amelia: Yeah... I feel those moments will be less and less with time, but I'm still in search for them! You're supposed to be around my strength as well, right? When was your last "revelation" if I may ask? I hope you're advancing at a good pace, that would give me hopes for the future

That's the wrong question, as I stopped playing for over a year and started again only a week ago! So right now no aha moments, more like trying to get my bad good habits back.
But even before I didn't get to 16k in two weeks, it took much longer than that. I also didn't play quite as much as you do. I have seen people who played a lot get much stronger than that quite fast though, up to the SDK levels.

If you see me around on KGS or Kaya, feel free to ask for a game!

"Aha" moments will get rarer with time.

If only "uh-oh" moments did, too.

Actually, "uh-oh" moments can be parents of "aha" moments.

So true

[yoyoma]

I just opened your most recent loss on KGS. What is the status of White's upper right corner?

$$ Position at move 69
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . X X O O O . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . O X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O X X X X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . O . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$ Position at move 69
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . X X O O O . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . O . O X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . , . O X O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O X X X X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . O . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

[Nyine]

I don't know how to post games here but... white is dead at this point playing black at S16. No escape possible. Tsumego problem! In fact, until movement 210 it's a dead group. I didn't notice about it just after white closed, then I was like "oh..."

[skydyr]

I don't know how to post games here but... white is dead at this point playing black at S16. No escape possible. Tsumego problem! In fact, until movement 210 it's a dead group. I didn't notice about it just after white closed, then I was like "oh..."

Usually this is called unsettled, because black can kill if he plays there first, but white can live as well by playing first. Dead is when white moves first and still can't live, given alternating play (though even then stones can come back to life through trades and kos).

[Nyine]

You're right skydyr, but I think that yoyoma is trying to point out that me as black and moving first I could have killed that group with more tsumego knowledge. But it's just what I think, I may be wrong

[skydyr]

You're right skydyr, but I think that yoyoma is trying to point out that me as black and moving first I could have killed that group with more tsumego knowledge. But it's just what I think, I may be wrong

I suspect that's why he brought it up as well

[Amelia]

How to post your games: Have a look at KGS archive: http://www.gokgs.com/archives.jsp
You can enter your user name and see all your KGS games: http://www.gokgs.com/gameArchives.jsp?user=Nyine
The first column is a link to the game. Right click on the link > Copy this link

Then you paste it in your forum message and you use the sgf codes, like this:

Code: Select all

[sgf]http://files.gokgs.com/games/2013/2/21/Nyine-Stepaa.sgf[/sgf]

The result is this:


If you want to try tsumego have a look at graded go problems 2&3. It will help your game.

Also a general advice: in most cases you play where white played first. It is a flaw of many players, me included, called "following your opponent around". Try to do this less. Before a move consider if there is not another point on the board bigger or just as big that you can take instead of responding locally. I will leave other commentaries to stronger players.

Forget the above, I shouldn't post when I haven't slept enough, I gave advice to your opponent instead

[jts]

You're right skydyr, but I think that yoyoma is trying to point out that me as black and moving first I could have killed that group with more tsumego knowledge. But it's just what I think, I may be wrong

Yes, that's skydr's point. He didn't want to hammer it in because he's gracious, so I'll be the pedant.

If a group is alive then it's a waste of stones for you to try to kill it - whatever you play, it will live (if W replies correctly). If W plays an extra move here to "save" the group, that's like a pass.

If a group is dead then it's still a waste of stones for you to kill it! Whatever W plays, it will still die if B replies correctly. If B plays an extra move here to "kill" the group, that's like a pass.

If a group is unsettled, then the next player to make a move can kill the group, or make it live. Playing there is very important.

[Nyine]

@Amelia: Don't give advice to my opponents! It's hard enough as it is! The sgf viewer looks really easy to use Amelia, thanks a lot for the tip!

@jts and yoyoma: Ok, understood. Then the group is neither dead or alive, it's unsettled! About being pedant there's no need to worry, I think you're not at all. Instructive, I'd say, and really, I appreciate it. All of you guys are being very helpful and I cannot thank you enough for it.

[Mike Novack]

I think perhaps people are missing something?

Nyine identifies as a beginner who has been playing just a couple weeks. Look at that game? Sure, lost, but did that game look anything like the typical game of somebody who has been playing just a couple weeks?

Nyine would be a very atypical beginner and so might need to be giving advice different than we usually give somebody who has only been playing a couple weeks.

What I suggest is that we forget about that couple weeks bit. For example, looking at that game, what are the most glaring things that Nyine didn't recognize.

[Nyine]

Thank you for your words Mike, I'm certainly doing my best to get strong fast. About that game I would say that the most evident problem is that I don't connect groups as good as I should, but I'm aware that dozens of my movements were horrible.

EdLee proved me today in KGS how much I have to improve my game. In almost 150 moves I made so many "slow", "overplayed" and other moves that I thought that I was not doing anything right at all! Confidence on my strength goes up and down every day. Some days I feel like if I could take on 10 kyu players without a problem and others I don't feel myself strong enough to play against a 20 kyu.

What I meant is... I'm starting to realize how many factors are involved when I'm playing. If I read a book about fuseki I try to apply the concepts that I read and I fail, but maybe the next day the same concepts on that book make me feel stronger and I feel more solid while playing. I think that confidence is the main subject I have to address to improve myself, and I'm very very sure that I need to start studying books and absorbing information much faster if I want to keep my improvement rate.

I don't know. My first goal was to become 15 kyu and I'm almost there. Then it will be 10 kyu, but after that? I see 1 dan, 2 kyu or even 8 kyu and though I say to myself "I can do this too", reaching those goals look more like a dream than a reality for what I heard from most people.

Sorry for so much ranting but I wanted to share my thoughts with you. All this can be resumed in this question: "What can I expect of myself?"

[SoDesuNe]

All this can be resumed in this question: "What can I expect of myself?"

I believe everything up to amateur 5-dan (let's say EGF-rank, around 6-dan on KGS) is possible for everyone. Given time and money. How fast is a different question but - in the end - also revolves around time and money.

[EdLee]

I'm starting to realize how many factors are involved when I'm playing.

Bingo. There are literally hundreds and thousands of tidbits (fundamentals),
and we work on improving them one by one.

[Bill Spight]

All this can be resumed in this question: "What can I expect of myself?"

I believe everything up to amateur 5-dan (let's say EGF-rank, around 6-dan on KGS) is possible for everyone. Given time and money. How fast is a different question but - in the end - also revolves around time and money.

My hat is off to anybody who learns go as an adult and makes it to 5 kyu.