Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans

logan · Post by **logan** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:06 am

I think some kyus can solve a few of these (without placing stones ;-)

).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm1 1. Black to save his -stones $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . $$ | . O X O O O O . . , . $$ | O . O X O O X X . . . $$ | . O O X X X O O . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm1 2. Black to live $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . O O O O O . . . . $$ | . . X . O X X O . . . $$ | . . . O X X . O . . . $$ | . . . O X . X O . , . $$ | . . . O X . X X O . . $$ | . . O X X . X O O . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm1 3. Black to kill White $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . $$ | O O O O X . . . . . . $$ | X O . , . X . . . , . $$ | X X O O X . X . X . . $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm1 4. Black to play $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . $$ | . X X X O . O . . , . $$ | . O . . X O . . . . . $$ | X O X . . O . . . . . $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm1 5. Which stones should Black sacrifice to live? $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . X O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:44 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm1 1. Black to save his -stones $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . $$ | . X X X . 8 5 6 . . . $$ | . O X O O O O 3 7 , . $$ | O . O X O O X X 2 . . $$ | . O O X X X O O 1 4 . $$ | . . . . . . . . 9 . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm1 2. Black to live $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . O O O O O . . . . $$ | . . X . O X X O . . . $$ | . . 4 O X X . O . . . $$ | . 6 3 O X . X O . , . $$ | . 2 1 O X . X X O . . $$ | . 5 O X X . X O O . . $$ | . 7 . O . . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm1 3. Black to kill White $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . $$ | O O O O X . . . . . . $$ | X O . 5 . X . . . , . $$ | X X O O X . X . X . . $$ | 1 4 X 3 . . . . . . . $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm1 4. Black to play $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . $$ | . X X X O . O . . , . $$ | . O . . X O . . . . . $$ | X O X . 1 O . . . . . $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

SoDesuNe · Post by **SoDesuNe** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:30 am

Almost the same as Dusk Eagle. I missed the descent at :b9:

in the first problem but if Black just captures White get's a Ko.
I also found the sequence to :b7:

in the second problem ( :w2:

being the strongest counter, I think just playing this at :b5:

or

fails pretty fast) but then I was at lost when White connects at :b1:

. But now after seing the move numbers it was fairly easy to find the following sequence ^^

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc 2. Black to live $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . O O O O O . . . . $$ | . . X . O X X O . . . $$ | . . O O X X . O . . . $$ | . O . O X . X O . , . $$ | . O 1 O X 2 X X O . . $$ | . X O X X . X O O . . $$ | . X 6 O 5 3 4 . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

I have the same solution to problem 3.
Problem four needs some more moves, I guess. I found this Ko:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 4. Diagramme 1 - Black can't capture otherwise 'a' kills. $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . $$ | 4 X X X O . O . . , . $$ | 3 O 2 a X O . . . . . $$ | X O X . 1 O . . . . . $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm5 4. Diagramme 2 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . $$ | O X X X O . O . . , . $$ | X O O 1 X O . . . . . $$ | X O X . X O . . . . . $$ | 2 O X . X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm7 4. Diagramme 3 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . $$ | O X X X O . O . . , . $$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . . $$ | 2 O X . X O . . . . . $$ | O O X . X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm9 4. Diagramme 4 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . $$ | O X X X O . O . . , . $$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . . $$ | O O X . X O . . . . . $$ | O O X . X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm10 4. Diagramme 5 - Ko $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . $$ | O X X X O . O . . , . $$ | X 1 . X X O . . . . . $$ | . . X . X O . . . . . $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Problem 5 is too troublesome right now ^^

post scriptum:

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:40 pm

I was glad to see (when I gave up and peeked) that I am not the only one who can't get them all. One to go but no clue at this point. :scratch:

logan · Post by **logan** » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:53 pm

@ SoDesuNe

How about this?

#4 can be disorienting :shock:

because there's a lot of back-and-forth and some tricky timing involved.

Number five actually has an interesting history. Originally it was aimed at saving the seven stones, but a mistake was found in the original solution; so its goal had to be broadened to 'which stones should Black sacrifice?,' allowing it to work once again.

drmwc · Post by **drmwc** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:18 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . 4 O O 5 O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O 3 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O . 2 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

This seems effective. W has alternatives, but B does well in all of them.

e.g.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O 3 1 X O 5 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O 4 2 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . 2 O O 4 O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . 1 X O , 5 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O . 3 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

W wins the semeai at the top, but loses around 240 points of territory.

logan · Post by **logan** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:09 pm

drmwc wrote:
$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 4 O O 5 O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 3 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 2 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . 4 O O 5 O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O 3 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O . 2 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

This seems effective. W has alternatives, but B does well in all of them.

e.g.

$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 3 1 X O 5 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O 4 2 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O 3 1 X O 5 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O 4 2 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

or

$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 2 O O 4 O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . 1 X O , 5 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 3 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . 2 O O 4 O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . 1 X O , 5 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O . 3 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

W wins the semeai at the top, but loses around 240 points of territory.

Uh-oh! You fell for the first trap drmwc!

drmwc · Post by **drmwc** » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:21 am

Good point Logan!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

3 looks good to me. W has a number of options:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . b O O . O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . 1 X O 4 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O . 5 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 3 2 a . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

If 4 as here, 5 makes miai of a and b so B gets something e.g.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . 6 O O 8 O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . 1 X O 4 9 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O . 5 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 3 2 7. . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

B loses the semeai, but again gets 240 points (approximately!).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O . 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

So W atari looks sensible, but then B 5 is strong. Some lines transpose to the earlier ones e.g.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O 7 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O 6 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

and

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . 6 O O 7 O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O . 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

So the new line for W is this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O 6 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O 7 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

B 7 works well. W can consider atari below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W8 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O a 2 O O . O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O X X X O O . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O X O O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 1 X O b . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

and now W has a problem - he can't proteact against a and b. So W needs to atari above:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W8 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . 1 O O 3 O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O X X X O O . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O X O O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 2 X O 4 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

and again, B will get something, although he may need to give up the top group again as in the line shown.

gogameguru · Post by **gogameguru** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:24 am

Nice problems Logan. I'm curious about whether you're trying your hand at making your own problems after our conversation last week?

logan · Post by **logan** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:04 am

Thanks David!

I gathered these problems from some old Go World issues. However, I did do a small bit of tweaking. It's fun to collect problems from various sources and string them together into a flowing, thematic set (I should have a good example in this upcoming week's Journal entry).

As for creating problems, I wouldn't want to say that I've created any original problems over the years, rather I've modified the ideas of other problems to create my own variations from time-to-time.

keysersoze · Post by **keysersoze** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:17 am

Can we maybe get hidden solutions to these problems? I haven't learnt to post diagrams here but i'm clueless about problem #4. If white sacrifices a stone at move 4 the whole sequence seems fairly straightforward but I don't see a way to avoid damezumari (if we refuse to play the ko that is). Help! :roll:

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:28 am

gogameguru wrote:Nice problems Logan. I'm curious about whether you're trying your hand at making your own problems after our conversation last week?

What conversation did you have last week? Let me know, too.

SoDesuNe · Post by **SoDesuNe** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:17 am

keysersoze wrote:Can we maybe get hidden solutions to these problems? I haven't learnt to post diagrams here but i'm clueless about problem #4. If white sacrifices a stone at move 4 the whole sequence seems fairly straightforward but I don't see a way to avoid damezumari (if we refuse to play the ko that is). Help! :roll:

I'm still with a Ko. But I'm prone to make stupid mistakes : D

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 4. Black to play - 1 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . $$ | 6 X X X O . O . . , . $$ | 7 O 2 3 X O . . . . . $$ | X O X 4 1 O . . . . . $$ | 8 O X 5 X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Black has to capture :w4: else:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm5 4. Black to play - Variation: Black dies $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | 4 O O O O . . . . . . $$ | 3 X X X O . O . . , . $$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . . $$ | X O X O X O . . . . . $$ | . O X 2 X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm9 4. Black to play - 2 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . $$ | O X X X O . O . . , . $$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . . $$ | 2 O X . X O . . . . . $$ | O O X X X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 4. Black to play - 3 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . $$ | O X X X O . O . . , . $$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . . $$ | O O X . X O . . . . . $$ | O O X X X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm12 4. Black to play - 4 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . $$ | O X X X O . O . . , . $$ | X 1 4 X X O . . . . . $$ | 2 3 X . X O . . . . . $$ | 5 . X X X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm17 4. Black to play - 5: Ko? $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | 3 O O O O . . . . . . $$ | O X X X O . O . . , . $$ | 1 O X X X O . . . . . $$ | . O X . X O . . . . . $$ | O . X X X 2 . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

logan · Post by **logan** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:36 pm

drmwc wrote:
Good point Logan!

$$
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$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------

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[go]$$ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

3 looks good to me. W has a number of options:

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$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . b O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . 1 X O 4 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 5 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 a . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------

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[go]$$ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . b O O . O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . 1 X O 4 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O . 5 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 3 2 a . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

If 4 as here, 5 makes miai of a and b so B gets something e.g.

$$
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$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 6 O O 8 O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . 1 X O 4 9 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 5 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 7. . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------

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[go]$$ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . 6 O O 8 O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . 1 X O 4 9 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O . 5 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 3 2 7. . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

B loses the semeai, but again gets 240 points (approximately!).

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$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------

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[go]$$ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O . 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

So W atari looks sensible, but then B 5 is strong. Some lines transpose to the earlier ones e.g.

$$
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O 7 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O 6 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O 7 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O 6 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

and

$$
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$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 6 O O 7 O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . 6 O O 7 O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O . 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

So the new line for W is this:

$$
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O 6 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O 7 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O 6 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O 7 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

B 7 works well. W can consider atari below:

$$W8
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O a 2 O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O X X X O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X O b . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W8 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O a 2 O O . O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O X X X O O . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O X O O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 1 X O b . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

and now W has a problem - he can't proteact against a and b. So W needs to atari above:

$$W8
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 1 O O 3 O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O X X X O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 X O 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W8 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . 1 O O 3 O . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O X X X O O . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . O X O O X X O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 2 X O 4 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

and again, B will get something, although he may need to give up the top group again as in the line shown.

SoDesuNe wrote:
$$Bc 4. Black to play - 1
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | 6 X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 7 O 2 3 X O . . . . .
$$ | X O X 4 1 O . . . . .
$$ | 8 O X 5 X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 4. Black to play - 1 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . $$ | 6 X X X O . O . . , . $$ | 7 O 2 3 X O . . . . . $$ | X O X 4 1 O . . . . . $$ | 8 O X 5 X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

Black has to capture else:
$$Bcm5 4. Black to play - Variation: Black dies
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 4 O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | 3 X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . .
$$ | X O X O X O . . . . .
$$ | . O X 2 X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm5 4. Black to play - Variation: Black dies $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | 4 O O O O . . . . . . $$ | 3 X X X O . O . . , . $$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . . $$ | X O X O X O . . . . . $$ | . O X 2 X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

$$Bcm9 4. Black to play - 2
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . .
$$ | 2 O X . X O . . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9 4. Black to play - 2 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . $$ | O X X X O . O . . , . $$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . . $$ | 2 O X . X O . . . . . $$ | O O X X X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

$$Bcm11 4. Black to play - 3
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . .
$$ | O O X . X O . . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------

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[go]$$Bcm11 4. Black to play - 3 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . $$ | O X X X O . O . . , . $$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . . $$ | O O X . X O . . . . . $$ | O O X X X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

$$Wcm12 4. Black to play - 4
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | X 1 4 X X O . . . . .
$$ | 2 3 X . X O . . . . .
$$ | 5 . X X X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------

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[go]$$Wcm12 4. Black to play - 4 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . $$ | O X X X O . O . . , . $$ | X 1 4 X X O . . . . . $$ | 2 3 X . X O . . . . . $$ | 5 . X X X . . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

$$Bcm17 4. Black to play - 5: Ko?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 3 O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 1 O X X X O . . . . .
$$ | . O X . X O . . . . .
$$ | O . X X X 2 . . . . .
$$ ----------------------

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[go]$$Bcm17 4. Black to play - 5: Ko? $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | O O . . . . . . . . . $$ | 3 O O O O . . . . . . $$ | O X X X O . O . . , . $$ | 1 O X X X O . . . . . $$ | . O X . X O . . . . . $$ | O . X X X 2 . . . . . $$ ----------------------[/go]

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Life In 19x19

Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans

Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans

Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans

Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans

Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans

Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans

Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans

Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans

Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans

Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans

Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans

Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans

Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans

Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans

Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans