Philosophy: What's the term for "no options"?

All non-Go discussions should go here.
User avatar
Toge
Lives in gote
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:11 am
Rank: KGS dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Toge
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 63 times

Philosophy: What's the term for "no options"?

Post by Toge »

Some theories and methods in science are all-encompassing and thus containt no information. There is no way to dismiss them through rational argument or experiment. I'll give some examples of what I mean. The following sentences contain idea of "no options":

All measurable phenomena can be analyzed statistically.

Everything humans do is communication; delivering information for the observer.

The fittest pass on their genes in evolution.

On scale from 1 to 10, how are you feeling? Human sciences sometimes make hilarious attempts to measure in immeasurable. Statistics is a source of red herrings due to the increasing chance to find connections as the amount of variables increase. None of the connections contain explanations, and uneducated people are particularly vulnerable to misinterpreting them.

Intentionality is not necessary for communication. Sleeping person is conveying the information that she's tired, though I think the point of origination of such thought must be on the observer rather than the observed. If one believes that everything is communication, there's no experiment which would prove it wrong.

The evolution is good example of what I'm asking. If any living being dies without producing offspring, then that being is unfit. I guess this is not meant to give a priori truth (fitness = creating offpring), but it certainly feels like it. It also can't be falsified by any experiment.
hyperpape
Tengen
Posts: 4382
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 3:24 pm
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Location: Caldas da Rainha, Portugal
Has thanked: 499 times
Been thanked: 727 times

Re: Philosophy: What's the term for "no options"?

Post by hyperpape »

I can't think of a term that covers these. You might variously call them tautological, or unfalsifiable, but I'm not sure either is what you're after.

P.S. On the third example, I couldn't tell you how it goes, but there's lots of argument over whether that's really tautological or unfalsifiable, or devoid of content or anything else. I can't remember how it goes, but I expect there's discussion here: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/fitness/
Mike Novack
Lives in sente
Posts: 1045
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:36 am
GD Posts: 0
Been thanked: 182 times

Re: Philosophy: What's the term for "no options"?

Post by Mike Novack »

Toge wrote:..... The following sentences contain idea of "no options":

All measurable phenomena can be analyzed statistically.

Everything humans do is communication; delivering information for the observer.

The fittest pass on their genes in evolution.



a) The first and third are tautologies. The second is false.

b) Your problem is with adding other meanings to some of the terms or removing meanings from the terms. Things not included in the statements themselves.

That any collection of numeric data can be analyzed statistically doesn't mean that analysis will be useful in any way. That a passive action by the observed can be said to be "communication" does violence to the concept (is the rock I am looking at communicating to me?). The problem with introducing other meanings of "fittest" is common in rhetoric, logical "capture" resulting in bad logic appearing valid to the unwary (the biological term "fittest" in evolution can only be applied in retrospect to those that did leave more descendents).
User avatar
Toge
Lives in gote
Posts: 313
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:11 am
Rank: KGS dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Toge
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 63 times

Re: Philosophy: What's the term for "no options"?

Post by Toge »

Wikipedia says about communication:

Communication is defined by de Valenzuela as “any act by which one person gives to or receives from another person information about that person's needs, desires, perceptions, knowledge, or affective states. Communication may be intentional or unintentional, may involve conventional or unconventional signals, may take linguistic or nonlinguistic forms, and may occur through spoken or other modes.”

Sleeping person communicates the state of being tired unintentionally, using behavioral signal and in nonlinguistic form without speaking. Rock is not communicating because it's not a person. Strange that other animals are not included here.

The point in the statistics example is that it's stacking abstractions upon a concrete object. The existence of relationship between it and some other thing is dependant on the statistical analysis itself.
gasana
Dies in gote
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:07 pm
Rank: kgs1k
GD Posts: 2
Has thanked: 320 times

Re: Philosophy: What's the term for "no options"?

Post by gasana »

"Intentionality is not necessary for communication. Sleeping person is conveying the information that she's tired, though I think the point of origination of such thought must be on the observer rather than the observed"

But the observer does have an intentionality, i would say.
Mike Novack
Lives in sente
Posts: 1045
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:36 am
GD Posts: 0
Been thanked: 182 times

Re: Philosophy: What's the term for "no options"?

Post by Mike Novack »

Toge wrote:Wikipedia says about communication:

Communication is defined by de Valenzuela as “any act by which one person gives to or receives from another person information about that person's needs, desires, perceptions, knowledge, or affective states. Communication may be intentional or unintentional, may involve conventional or unconventional signals, may take linguistic or nonlinguistic forms, and may occur through spoken or other modes.”


Just because you read it in Wikipedia doesn't make it so. That is an obviously flawed definition of "communication". We are not the only being on this planet that communicate. Birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas (communication is required for mating)

If you only require intention of the observer and not the sender explain why the rock in my counter example was not communicating ("endurance" perhaps). And if communication is solely whatever is received/interpreted by the observer, how could there ever be miscommunication?
User avatar
Bonobo
Oza
Posts: 2223
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:39 pm
Rank: OGS 9k
GD Posts: 0
OGS: trohde
Universal go server handle: trohde
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 8262 times
Been thanked: 924 times
Contact:

Re: Philosophy: What's the term for "no options"?

Post by Bonobo »

Mike Novack wrote:[..] We are not the only being on this planet that communicate. Birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas (communication is required for mating)
Thanks, now I have an ear worm again :-D

If you only require intention of the observer and not the sender explain why the rock in my counter example was not communicating ("endurance" perhaps). And if communication is solely whatever is received/interpreted by the observer, how could there ever be miscommunication?
AFAIK, there is no intention needed on the sender side … red spots on the skin, a symptom, communicate the fact of measles to the doctor.

Cf. Semiotics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiotics
“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS? :)
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3373 times

Re: Philosophy: What's the term for "no options"?

Post by Bill Spight »

Toge wrote:Wikipedia says about communication:

Communication is defined by de Valenzuela as “any act by which one person gives to or receives from another person information about that person's needs, desires, perceptions, knowledge, or affective states. Communication may be intentional or unintentional, may involve conventional or unconventional signals, may take linguistic or nonlinguistic forms, and may occur through spoken or other modes.”



Way to take the com out of communication. ;)
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
hyperpape
Tengen
Posts: 4382
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 3:24 pm
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Location: Caldas da Rainha, Portugal
Has thanked: 499 times
Been thanked: 727 times

Re: Philosophy: What's the term for "no options"?

Post by hyperpape »

Trying to define communication without some sort of context is likely to be futile. But there's an interesting line, between types of communication in which one person intends to produce understanding in an other, and cases where there's no such intent. Paul Grice said it better than I can, so I'll just tell you that you should read his paper.
aokun
Dies with sente
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:50 pm
Rank: AGA 1D
GD Posts: 150
KGS: aokun
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 63 times

Re: Philosophy: What's the term for "no options"?

Post by aokun »

The evolution is good example of what I'm asking. If any living being dies without producing offspring, then that being is unfit. I guess this is not meant to give a priori truth (fitness = creating offpring), but it certainly feels like it. It also can't be falsified by any experiment.


Which puts creationists in the comically silly position of denying a tautology.

Of course, the above is not a statement of the theory of evolution, which is a theory about the origins of the species observed in the natural world, not a theory about the adaptability of one organism at a time. My summary would be that evolution says the following. (a) An organism gets its characteristics only from its parents and from random variation and mutation and passes only those characteristics to its progeny. This would be falsified by a creature showing adaptation during the course of its life and then passing that adaptation to its children. The famous example is if giraffes stretched their necks further to get higher food during their lifetime and then passed the longer necks to the next generation. This "Lamarckian" evolution is a perfectly plausible (and falsifiable) theory and is inconsistent with the Darwinian model. If instances of it occured, it would to that degree falsify Darwinian evolution. (b) Some variations render some creatures fitter than others, depending on the environment they happen to be in. This is close to the 1+1=2 thing above, but not quite. If the variations were incidental or trivial or had no influence on survival, creatures wouldn't change much from one generation to the next. If creatures' survival didn't vary much, it would falsify this. (c) Because of (b), the characteristics of populations evolve over time leading, from time to time, to the production of two or more distinct breeding populations ... species ... where there was one. This is hard to falsify, because it is a statement of the form "such and such happens from time to time." Proving it never happened once would be hard, but would falsify it.

And the big one ... (d) The process of inheritence and survival driven speciation described in (a)-(c) is the origin of _all_ the species observed on earth; all species evolved by this process from a common ancestor. This says a lot and is so hugely falsifiable. Here's one way to know. We falsified it. It's no longer true. There are species of plant and animal that have been created in a lab the result direct genetic engineering, not breeding. (d) has to be restated, "that process was the source of all speciation on earth up until that guy in Missouri made the self-cloning lizards."
User avatar
jts
Oza
Posts: 2662
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:17 pm
Rank: kgs 6k
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 310 times
Been thanked: 632 times

Re: Philosophy: What's the term for "no options"?

Post by jts »

Sometimes you need to start a description by defining your term. "Fitness" is a very useful term in evolutionary biology and allied fields; but of course, the way it is used in those fields is not the only way to use "fit".

"Yo, baby, you fit!"
"Can we fit in one more passenger?"
"I didn't fit in at St. Cyprian."
"He plays three sports; he's so fit."

Now, if your reader's mind is wandering unsteadily over all the different ways you can define fitness while reading your essay on evolution, he isn't going to get much out of it. So it's a courtesy to the reader to lay down the law. He could have chosen some other word; or he could have chosen some other definition; but given that he is using the word "fitness" with the definition "passing on genes", it's perfectly sensible to occasionally remind the reader of how his terminology works. It's good style.
hyperpape
Tengen
Posts: 4382
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 3:24 pm
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Location: Caldas da Rainha, Portugal
Has thanked: 499 times
Been thanked: 727 times

Re: Philosophy: What's the term for "no options"?

Post by hyperpape »

"fit to be tied"
User avatar
emeraldemon
Gosei
Posts: 1744
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 1:33 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Has thanked: 697 times
Been thanked: 287 times

Re: Philosophy: What's the term for "no options"?

Post by emeraldemon »

I've always found it slightly annoying that "you have one option" and "you have no options" are used to describe the same thing.
User avatar
Fedya
Lives in gote
Posts: 603
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:21 pm
Rank: 6-7k KGS
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 139 times

Re: Philosophy: What's the term for "no options"?

Post by Fedya »

Well, "fat chance" and "slim chance" mean more or less the same thing too.
speedchase
Lives in sente
Posts: 800
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:36 pm
Rank: AGA 2kyu
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: speedchase
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 122 times

Re: Philosophy: What's the term for "no options"?

Post by speedchase »

Mike Novack wrote:
Toge wrote:..... The following sentences contain idea of "no options":

All measurable phenomena can be analyzed statistically.

Everything humans do is communication; delivering information for the observer.

The fittest pass on their genes in evolution.



a) The first and third are tautologies. The second is false.

Uh can we back up a second. I agree with you on one and two, but the third is a true statement depending on the context, not a tautology. This is not even true for humans anymore!
Post Reply