Project Shodan, KGS nick - Vladimir

[Bantari]

Yes, but the emphasis in your and Bill's posts (and other such posts) is on the word 'pro' and not on 'good teacher'.

To be sure, being a pro and being a good teacher are not the same.

I really don't want to beat a dead horse here, but...

A pro teacher CAN be a good teacher, and CAN be appropriate for a DDK player, sure. But emphasizing the condition that he is a PRO without any consideration that he is also GOOD and APPROPRIATE is harmful, imho. Now you qualify what you said, which is cool... but the initial statements looked like 'get A pro, does not matter which, as long as he is a pro'... what I am saying is that, at 12k level, the statement should read more like 'get a good teacher, no matter what, and if he happens to be a pro - that's ok too!'

Otherwise we really running into a level-worship here. And losing sight of what's really important. Or we care about supporting the pros more than supporting the OP.

So, from me to the OP:
Get a GOOD teacher, one that's right for YOU! And if it happens to be a pro, so much the better, hope you have the money to pay for the lessons.

PS>
Please understand - what I say here is not personally motivated, just a strong conviction. I would never charge nor pay for Go lessons. And I thank all those who helped me get to where I am without asking for anything in return. My hat off for you!

Now I need another glass of wine...

[Kanin]

Hi Vladimir,

I reached 1d on KGS within a year without a teacher and with far from optimal study technique. It is definitely not impossible or even that difficult, if you use your time wisely. Some people posted great advice already, especially Polama had some good stuff. There is no day-to-day study plan out there that I'm aware of but there is a pretty good piece on how to study go here: http://www.gogameworld.com/2013/03/30/h ... go-series/

There you can read about how to study tsumego, how to study pro games etc.

I belive you can make 1d in less than a year since, as someone already mentioned, you are not starting at zero. Good luck!

[EdLee]

Yes, find a good pro teacher immediately.

Yes, but the emphasis in your and Bill's posts (and other such posts) is on the word 'pro' and not on 'good teacher'.

No, Bantari. Either you misunderstood, or you are putting the emphasis into my mouth, or both.
You asked me to clarify what I meant by "a good pro teacher," so I replied, "A good pro who is also a good teacher."

"good pro teacher" -- equal emphasis on "good", "pro," and "teacher", as I already clarified to you.
Please don't put emphasis into my mouth or change the meaning of what I said.
"A good pro who is also a good teacher." -- this is very clear.

As a matter of fact - the words 'good teacher' are not even mentioned...

It was mentioned, in "good pro teacher". If somebody asks me for advice, and I say "find a teacher",
clearly, I do not mean "find a bad teacher".
If you think "find a teacher" is ambiguous because it does not explicitly specify
"find an OK teacher" or "find a good teacher," then, OK, that's why I included "good".

[EdLee]

Otherwise we really running into a level-worship here. And losing sight of what's really important. Or we care about supporting the pros more than supporting the OP.

No, Bantari, once again, this is only your opinion.
I suggested him to find a good pro teacher not to support pros, but because
and to me, that is important. To you, it is not. That's where we disagree (among other things).

You have stated your opinion. I agree with parts of it. I also disagree with parts of it.
I also have stated my opinion.

If you want to discuss this further, please PM me, or, if you're going to 2013 US Go Congress,
we can chat there. But I'm not going to discuss this with you any further here in this thread.
Thank you.

[Bantari]

Otherwise we really running into a level-worship here. And losing sight of what's really important. Or we care about supporting the pros more than supporting the OP.

No, Bantari, once again, this is only your opinion.
I suggested him to find a good pro teacher not to support pros, but because
and to me, that is important. To you, it is not. That's where we disagree (among other things).

You have stated your opinion. I agree with parts of it. I also disagree with parts of it.
I also have stated my opinion.

If you want to discuss this further, please PM me, or, if you're going to 2013 US Go Congress,
we can chat there. But I'm not going to discuss this with you any further here in this thread.
Thank you.

Lol.
Ok, fair.
Lets agree to disagree on this one, and move on.
I just realize - in the heat of the discussion we are actually highjacking a good thread. My apologies to the OP and you, Ed, and everybody involved. I get carried away sometimes, thanks for bringing me down to earth.

[vpopovic]

Hi vpopovic,

Good luck with your goal!

Since you only have at most an hour a day to then I recommend using that time to play games and have them reviewed. As others have said, it would be best to find a dan level player (since you are trying to reach 1-dan) to play with and help review your games. Since you don't have time to read books, then the dan player can help to fill in the most essential information that would have gained from reading those books. This should help you to efficiently use your time. Also, as being a human being you'll likely become burned out if you play and review a game everyday, so I suggest putting aside a couple of days a week to study life & death problems from some good books. They'll provide you with a break from your games and also let you focus on the second best way to directly improve your game.

Again, best of luck and see you in the dans!

Thank you for a view from a practical side.

[vpopovic]

@p2501, @jts I decided to listen to you about not overplanning. For the first one, two or three months I'm gonna just play as much as I can and do tsumego the same way. I'll squeeze Opening Theory Made Easy, Tesuji and Attack and Defense in when I have the time.
After that initial period I'm gonna start with more studying from the books.

@Kanin O, man, those were the words I needed. Thank you very, very much.

@Bantari, @EdLee Guys, you inspired me to go today to a go club and try to find a teacher. I don't know if there are any here where I live, but in case there aren't, I'm gonna give serious thoughts to the idea of finding one online. Thank you for inspiring debate.

Two notes:
1. goproblems.com works fast and good on my native android browser, so I'm gonna exploit it every time I have couple of minutes.
2. Idea: I'm gonna record myself reading principles of Opening Theory Made Easy and some go proverbs understandable for me and gonna play it while I'm running, while in car etc. I hope it's gonna help me to remember principles and shapes/sequences related to them. I hope this is not a stupid idea

[jts]

Just to be clear - when I said "don't overplan," I meant that choosing one plan might have the effect of preventing you from experimenting with other plans, and thus not realizing that some element of the plan you did choose was a bad fit for you, and never discovering that some other approach was better suited to your interests and inclinations.

I do think that you should plan, at least to the extent of writing down somewhere how many games you expect to have played by June, how many problems you expect to have done, how much money you think you'll have spent on books and lessons - that sort of thing. It's hard to pursue a project without a concrete record of what your expectations were at each stage in the project - if you write down some ideas now, a month into the project you can compare your June-outlook to your April-outlook, and adjust your plans for the next month accordingly.

[Chew Terr]

My biggest piece of advice here is the same I would offer for any goal/diet/etc: keep to the spirit if not the letter. While you certainly need to be severe with yourself to make yourself work, if you are unable to perfectly keep your planned schedule, at least fit in what you can.

This may sound obvious, but I have been hearing lately about studies that say that when people miss a day on their diet, they are much more likely to go overboard or skip the whole week instead of just getting back to normal the next day. Similarly, if I was too busy in a week to get the go study that I had intended, it is much harder for me to start up the next week. Anyhow, my point is to take one day at a time and do everything you can to reach your intended effort for that day. If you can do that and put in the time, you will see results.

Also, the times when I was improving most were the times I had arranged motivation for myself. One of the best things about taking lessons, for me, was that it drove me to consistently play several serious games a week and self-review. Of course the lessons themselves were great, but if you can find something that helps you push yourself (be it that, a review journal, or a like-minded individual to compare notes with), it can really make it easier to put in the time.

[vpopovic]

In this game I made a ton of mistakes, lost 2 huge semenais, after that managed to kill 3-3 invasion and to invade other corner. I brought the game back to relatively close and did what? Lost for time due to my slow 3g on phone. For this one, I'm really sorry.

[Shaddy]

Here's a review.

http://eidogo.com/#xBSD46Ik

Your fighting is better than your opening, but you need to learn to play further away from strong stones and sacrifice stones that are just a burden to you.

[Uberdude]

Vladimir, shodan level means approximately 7 or 6 stones from pro.

With a job, a wife, and a daughter, it's not going to be easy.

"I want to make X-dan in Y period of time" is a popular theme in these discussions. ^(*)

To me, your goal sounds like an 8-year-old child saying,
"I decided nothing will stop me from growing 3 feet (91 cm) in 1 year."

Good luck.


_____
^(*) So far, of all these wishful declarations here on L19,
I don't recall any single one fulfilling their wish. 0% success. 100% failure.
If I've missed it, would someone kindly point out the thread where the poster succeeded. Thanks.

Perhaps there is a selection bias sort of effect going on in that it takes time for people to discover L19, and those who make shodan in a year do so before they discover this forum. I made shodan in a year and a half and didn't discover this forum until 5 years later.

[jts]

Perhaps there is a selection bias sort of effect going on in that it takes time for people to discover L19, and those who make shodan in a year do so before they discover this forum. I made shodan in a year and a half and didn't discover this forum until 5 years later.

In addition to the selection effect, there is the treatment effect. You can't post in a forum and play Go at the same time.

[wineandgolover]

Vladimir,

Good luck. It is definitely do-able.

The folks I've seen do it are far better at fighting (reading) than those who make it slower. Being able to cut and kill makes up for most any deficiency in theory, at least as far as shodan.

A pro once laughed at me kindly when I talked about theory. She said that in China, my opponent would say, "You have excellent theories. Now I kill you." Too true!

[wineandgolover]

On the pro versus amateur teacher topic...

All but the very strongest amateurs still have flaws and blind-spots in their own game, that they are likely to pass on to their students, or at least be unable to correct.

Pros don't.

Vladimir described himself as tabula rasa. Pros will emphasize proper play without introducing bad habits, which seems like a good thing for a clean slate.

That said, a good teaching amateur is certainly better than no teacher at all.