Racism on KGS

[Dokuganryu]

Considering the topic "owner" called cdybeijing (from China) a Westerner, I am afraid it will be even harder to find a accurate definition of a Westerner.

[cgbspender]

Hi..
Just a few minutes ago I am banned by a probably racist admin of KGS.
I will not say much here, just check my logs, I said nothing, just having some little fun like ALL WESTERN USERS DO, but our admin probably checked where I came from (TURKEY) and banned me. Oh, the ban notice was this: ignoring admin warning..he wrote me 5 seconds ago about something like that "take my warning serious" and banned me after 5 seconds.
I insist to check WMS or other KGS owners the logs, I am sure he or she banned me because of my origins. He or she is probably one of the americans dude who can not distinguish between Chechens and Czech people...
seriously..get a grip.

one admin was GFPSPENDER or smth like that.

KGS was a much better place before..those admins were probably 13-14 years old that time.

Hi, I am CGBSpender.
Admins take racist allegations (and any feedback) pretty seriously as nyanjilla mentionned, and you're indeed invited to write to admin@gokgs.com to get the full explanations about your ban. But I will answer your thread right away as you are attacking me personally. To make things clear, I did NOT ban you.
It might happen that sometimes a french admin would ban a turkish player, or that an english admin might ban a french player. But this is usually based on mishebaviour on KGS. It's nothing about racism or "client language". As far as I'm concerned, I don't even bother having a look at one's client language, or the player's country. When this is not the case and an admin abused his power, we investigate, make suggestions on the admin forum to avoid repeating the mistake in the future, and we apologize to the user when we went too far. When a player is banned, there is rarely anything personal. I like to think we do not ban for personal reasons. Nor do we ban because of origins, strength, or whatever reason. We ban so as to keep serenity on kgs, to prevent the other users from having to cope with one player's misbehaviour.
Sometimes it's not well understood, one thing you find non-offensive can be thought of by admins to be "harmful or disrupting" to other players. We do try to react objectively, but we are no robots. Mistakes happen. And as said, they are being treated seriously.

CGBSpender

[deja]

@cgbspender - Just out of curiosity, would a comment that began with "ALL WESTERN USERS DO..." be something considered as potentially offensive? Obviously we're not given the full story here, as is almost always the case in these type of complaints, but assuming nothing offensive completed that sentence I find it difficult to believe such would raise any red flags whatsoever. At least I hope it wouldn't.

[cgbspender]

It depends on a few factors, which could be (but non-exhaustively) :

- if the player who says so has an history about creating troubles, racist trolls, putting oil on fire and such.
- The admin himself. Yes there is a little part of subjectivity. We don't all have the same background, religious, social, background of any sort. We don't all have the same expectations or the same ways to deal with the same issue.
All this, despite the fact admins try a lot to remain objective the most they can.

So there are many possibilities, according to those factors, which can be, warn the user in room, warn in private message (some users feel belittled when we warn them in rooms). Depending on current, or past circumstances, it can also lead to a short ban.

[Mef]

@cgbspender - Just out of curiosity, would a comment that began with "ALL WESTERN USERS DO..." be something considered as potentially offensive? Obviously we're not given the full story here, as is almost always the case in these type of complaints, but assuming nothing offensive completed that sentence I find it difficult to believe such would raise any red flags whatsoever. At least I hope it wouldn't.

Just to clarify, as I read his story he was just saying that he was having fun (as all western users do), not necessarily implying that this was the text of his comment.

[Bonobo]

I have issues with the expression “just having some little fun like ALL WESTERN USERS DO”—isn’t this somewhat racist/chauvinist in itself as it seems to suggest that “Eastern” users don’t (want to?) have fun?

[deja]

@cgbspender - Just out of curiosity, would a comment that began with "ALL WESTERN USERS DO..." be something considered as potentially offensive? Obviously we're not given the full story here, as is almost always the case in these type of complaints, but assuming nothing offensive completed that sentence I find it difficult to believe such would raise any red flags whatsoever. At least I hope it wouldn't.

Just to clarify, as I read his story he was just saying that he was having fun (as all western users do), not necessarily implying that this was the text of his comment.

LOL! I'm an idiot. Yeah, I totally misread that. Never mind.

[Uberdude]

Hemisphereist!

[daal]

I have issues with the expression “just having some little fun like ALL WESTERN USERS DO”—isn’t this somewhat racist/chauvinist in itself as it seems to suggest that “Eastern” users don’t (want to?) have fun?

I hear what you're saying, but I think you're reading too much into it. It's not about who has fun, it's about who gets punished for having fun. His opinion is that had he been a Westerner, he would not have been banned. While the attitude doesn't seem racist to me, making unsupported public accusations is just a really a cheap shot below the belt.

[Bonobo]

I have issues with the expression “just having some little fun like ALL WESTERN USERS DO”—isn’t this somewhat racist/chauvinist in itself as it seems to suggest that “Eastern” users don’t (want to?) have fun?

I hear what you're saying, but I think you're reading too much into it. It's not about who has fun, it's about who gets punished for having fun. His opinion is that had he been a Westerner, he would not have been banned.

Oh, d’oh … you know what? I’d thought he'd thought of himself as a »Westerner« and not as “Easterner” I guess my perception of “Eastern” begins quite some more to the East

Thanks for showing me how I misunderstood.

[Javaness2]

Are you sure you were on KGS and not another server?
I don't find any ban associated with your username

[Pippen]

Are you sure you were on KGS and not another server?
I don't find any ban associated with your username

That becomes more and more interesting. Maybe he's bought by IGS to destroy KGS's reputation?^^ By the way: The more I read from this guy the more I believe he's the kind of guy who hates the western world and this ban confirmed his view and did unleash all his hate...just a speculation though.

[Bonobo]

[..] Maybe he's bought by IGS to destroy KGS's reputation?^^

<facepalm> not funny, IMNSHO. And there’s no need to breed any rumours.

By the way: The more I read from this guy the more I believe he's the kind of guy who hates the western world and this ban confirmed his view and did unleash all his hate...just a speculation though.

No need for such speculations either.

[Joaz Banbeck]

...No need for such speculations either.

Agreed. Let's be nice to the OP. He's a fellow go player.

[BigDoug]

Hello,

Normally I wouldn't post ban-related information about a player on KGS, but calling an admin a racist is a serious accusation. I have reviewed the information which was typed by the player in question prior to being booted. My judgement is that the accusation of racism is entirely unwarranted and a slur against the admin named in the original post.

I've removed the player's account name below, since it wasn't provided in the original post. However, the following comment by the player in the EGR prior to being booted may provide some necessary context to the admin's actions.

- - - - -

From <name deleted> to room English Game Room:
i am in a mood to be banned..any mods online?

From <name deleted> to room English Game Room:
no fun if there is any mod

- - - - -

After further comments, some of which were inappropriate, the player was in fact banned (which was presumably the point of the entire exercise). I assume that the player then logged into this forum to complain and make the unwarranted accusation of racism.

I agree with the admin's decision to ban the player (the comments which caused the ban are not included above). If the player does want a further explanation, he or she is welcome to write to admin@gokgs.com and I'll discuss it in further detail.