New tsume-go technique

For lessons, as well as threads about specific moves, and anything else worth studying.
John Fairbairn
Oza
Posts: 3724
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:09 am
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 4672 times

New tsume-go technique

Post by John Fairbairn »

The latest Gekkan Go World (June 2013) has an article by Hiramoto Yasei 6-dan which may offer help to those mired in trying to solve tsumego problems. Unusually, the article relates also to the little booklet that accompanies each magazine. He claims that all of his students - or as he puts it "all(!)" - have made "epoch-making" progress after using his method. Those who master it will be at least 7-dan amateur.

The method seems obvious once you know what it is (wait for it ... patience is a virtue in go) but, on reflection, I've never heard anyone mention it, let alone promote it, in over 40 years of go. And, even if you have heard of it, or even claim to have invented it, I don't honestly think thsi forum would benefit from hearing about that. They'd rather hear how to get to 7-dan.

Still being patient? Good. But first a little background as to why Hiramoto may be in tune with our amateur needs. He was a late starter in the pro ranks simply because he was an amateur for a long time. He was the Students' Honinbo in 1974 and after graduation starting working for Mitsubishi Rayon. It was coming first in the 1976 qualification tournament for pros that made him change careers.

Right now, where was I? Where am I? Pause for senior moment or three. Ah, yes, pint of milk, please.

What? Tsume-go. Oh, OK, if you must. That's the trouble with these young internet whippersnappers. No patience! I remember when I was a lad...

Oh, I suppose I must get on with it. Bedtime cocoa's nearly ready.

In fact, I might try it myself when I go to bed tonight. I might even try this new tsume-go thingy.

The point is, it's something you have to do (the tsume-go thingy, that is), Hiramoto says, before you go to sleep. Not sure if that's before the cocoa or after, but you can twiddle around I suppose and see what's best for you.

When you are ready, look at a tsume-go problem to be solved and burn the position in your head. Close your eyes and solve the problem in your mind's eye. That's it. Except that he says that if you find it hard to fix the problem shape in your head, it's ok first to set it up on a board or to write it down on a scoresheet, just to help you to remember it. That's what I do with the pint of milk!

Actually, you can do this (not writing about milk, oh dear me, no!) at any time, such as walking along the street and he says "we pros often do that, but as it's dangerous (!) I don't recommend it. Sitting on a train is one ideal place. The moderate rocking motion will increase your concentration. But ... I take no responsibility if you miss your stop."

It's actually quite a long article and he discusses the reasons why it works and some spin-offs. Obviously it helps wth your reading, but apparently rather more than you may expect from just reading this advice, and it also means you can study go without a board. But it also seems to sharpen up the accuracy with which you view the board in real life, and (? or because) it helps you remember useful shapes (and whole games) better. In addition, it appears to boost a part of the brain you don't normally use for go, so that you get a health-giving feeling of rejuvenating the brain. Presumaby you can also chew gum better.

I'll skip the other points in the article, but will mention an interesting aspect of the problems in the booklet. They are all small, which is obviously the best way to start (and they are all corner problems, if that helps you), and the size of each and every problem is stated. The maximum size is 3x5. But that's not what you probably think it is. It refers only to the inside part of the problem, the bit that matters. It seems that sharpening up the accuracy of how you view a problem includes learning to screen out the surrounding stones, so that you only have to see something like half the number of stones in your mind's eye (though clearly you may need to note things like 'there's an extra liberty here').

It's free and easy enough to give it a whirl.

Oh, damn. The cocoa's gone cold!
User avatar
oren
Oza
Posts: 2777
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:54 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: oren
Tygem: oren740, orenl
IGS: oren
Wbaduk: oren
Location: Seattle, WA
Has thanked: 251 times
Been thanked: 549 times

Re: New tsume-go technique

Post by oren »

Thanks for the article. It sounds interesting.
Boidhre
Oza
Posts: 2356
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:15 pm
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: Boidhre
Location: Ireland
Has thanked: 661 times
Been thanked: 442 times

Re: New tsume-go technique

Post by Boidhre »

I do this, not often enough and definitely not as my default solving method but it's enjoyable to do so I can see myself doing it a lot more often. Usually it's happened after I laid a problem I was having trouble with out on the board and then after a while I'd go out for a cigarette (kids = no indoors smoking) and continued trying to solve it in my head whilst I was outside.
User avatar
lindentree
Dies with sente
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:12 pm
Rank: AGA 3 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: lindentree
Tygem: selendis
IGS: lchiu87
Wbaduk: lindentree
Location: California
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 13 times
Contact:

Re: New tsume-go technique

Post by lindentree »

Janice Kim suggested this method at a workshop I attended in SF a couple of years ago.
Splatted
Lives in sente
Posts: 734
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:41 pm
Rank: Washed up never was
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: Splatted
Has thanked: 681 times
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: New tsume-go technique

Post by Splatted »

I've heard it before, but I needed reminding. :roll:
gowan
Gosei
Posts: 1628
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:40 am
Rank: senior player
GD Posts: 1000
Has thanked: 546 times
Been thanked: 450 times

Re: New tsume-go technique

Post by gowan »

I suppose those little 5 x 5 endgame problems by Fukui Masaaki might work for this technique. And also Cho Chikun's at-a-glance problem books and Kato Masao's three move tesuji books.
snorri
Lives in sente
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:15 am
GD Posts: 846
Has thanked: 252 times
Been thanked: 251 times

Re: New tsume-go technique

Post by snorri »

lindentree wrote:Janice Kim suggested this method at a workshop I attended in SF a couple of years ago.


Yep. See this post. It's interesting that the problem she cited was also within the 3x5 rule of thumb mentioned. But that's natural for a couple of reasons. The first is you have so start with something you actually have a chance of holding in your head. Another is that a lot of interesting basic to intermediate problems on corners and sides concern eye spaces that are close to 6 points but have some kind of special circumstances like liberty problems, etc. You know, things that are only slight better than that's obviously dead. :)

As for the claim that one who masters this will be at least 7d amateur, that's the sort of tantalizing thing one hears in a lot of disciplines. It doesn't mean it's an easy way to 7d. It just means that mastering it is hard.

Also, since many of his students were presumably insei and therefore could be considered about 8d, maybe the exercise makes them weaker. :lol:

I've tried this, BTW. It's hard and frustrating. Maybe that's the point. Anyone who is willing to put up with the pain probably has the right attitude to study, so whether the exercise helps or not may be impertinent. The real value may be in testing your willingness to do whatever is necessary, despite the pain.
User avatar
daal
Oza
Posts: 2508
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:30 am
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 1304 times
Been thanked: 1128 times

Re: New tsume-go technique

Post by daal »

The maximum size is 3x5. But that's not what you probably think it is. It refers only to the inside part of the problem, the bit that matters. It seems that sharpening up the accuracy of how you view a problem includes learning to screen out the surrounding stones, so that you only have to see something like half the number of stones in your mind's eye (though clearly you may need to note things like 'there's an extra liberty here').


I think that this detail is worth highlighting because it refines the idea of simply solving the problem in your head, by directing one's attention to the relevant aspects of a problem. Hiramoto Yasei's approach makes us focus on the properties of stones, and I think this is indeed a bit different than what I've heard about before.
Patience, grasshopper.
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3373 times

Re: New tsume-go technique

Post by Bill Spight »

John Fairbairn wrote:When you are ready, look at a tsume-go problem to be solved and burn the position in your head. Close your eyes and solve the problem in your mind's eye. That's it. Except that he says that if you find it hard to fix the problem shape in your head, it's ok first to set it up on a board or to write it down on a scoresheet, just to help you to remember it. That's what I do with the pint of milk!

{snip}

I'll skip the other points in the article, but will mention an interesting aspect of the problems in the booklet. They are all small, which is obviously the best way to start (and they are all corner problems, if that helps you), and the size of each and every problem is stated. The maximum size is 3x5. But that's not what you probably think it is. It refers only to the inside part of the problem, the bit that matters. It seems that sharpening up the accuracy of how you view a problem includes learning to screen out the surrounding stones, so that you only have to see something like half the number of stones in your mind's eye (though clearly you may need to note things like 'there's an extra liberty here').


Getting the problem clearly in mind is important. How often do we see a good tesuji or tsumego move, except that a key stone is not exactly where it is supposed to be? The idea of screening out unimportant stones (or just noting important aspects, such as liberties) is an interesting refinement.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
User avatar
daal
Oza
Posts: 2508
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:30 am
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 1304 times
Been thanked: 1128 times

Re: New tsume-go technique

Post by daal »

A few random observations after trying this out before going to sleep and the next morning.

1. It's a great way to recycle simple problems.

2. Finding the right problem is a bit tricky - it can't be too hard, but if it's too easy, you might solve it while trying to memorize it.

3. Since the problems are relatively easy, all you have to do to check the answer is open your eyes and look at the problem.

4. Sometimes after solving a problem in my head, I open my eyes and am surprised how the stones look. It's not that I didn't solve it correctly, it's that while thinking about the problem, the visual aspect diminishes.

5. Focusing on the crux of the problem makes you think about the empty points.

6. An unsolved problem from this morning remains present in my mind despite a 2 hour interruption.

7. One night of this and I'm still not 7d. Will have to try again tomorrow.
Patience, grasshopper.
Boidhre
Oza
Posts: 2356
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:15 pm
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: Boidhre
Location: Ireland
Has thanked: 661 times
Been thanked: 442 times

Re: New tsume-go technique

Post by Boidhre »

daal wrote:A few random observations after trying this out before going to sleep and the next morning.

1. It's a great way to recycle simple problems.

2. Finding the right problem is a bit tricky - it can't be too hard, but if it's too easy, you might solve it while trying to memorize it.

3. Since the problems are relatively easy, all you have to do to check the answer is open your eyes and look at the problem.

4. Sometimes after solving a problem in my head, I open my eyes and am surprised how the stones look. It's not that I didn't solve it correctly, it's that while thinking about the problem, the visual aspect diminishes.

5. Focusing on the crux of the problem makes you think about the empty points.

6. An unsolved problem from this morning remains present in my mind despite a 2 hour interruption.

7. One night of this and I'm still not 7d. Will have to try again tomorrow.


Status problems of simple corner shapes where there's potentially a lot of reading but it's not a hard shape to memorise might be a good choice for people who don't just know the shape backwards already. You can even start adding liberties or stones and proving living sequences from different starting points if you know the shape is unconditionally alive. Then with shapes which are unsettled but not simple you could think about, what if Black plays the wrong move to make life, is it a seki now or dead? The Carpenter's Square for instance would give you plenty of reading to do if you started trying to work out all the different paths to ko.

I think here, having the one corner or side shape and you can alter slightly and read out sequences for a long time with is ideal. Obviously the stronger you get the harder it is to find shapes that do this for you and stay easy to remember.
User avatar
Unusedname
Lives in gote
Posts: 447
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:23 pm
Rank: kgs 5kyu
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Unusedname
Has thanked: 137 times
Been thanked: 68 times

Re: New tsume-go technique

Post by Unusedname »

daal wrote:2. Finding the right problem is a bit tricky - it can't be too hard, but if it's too easy, you might solve it while trying to memorize it.



I thought this would be a problem too. But Life and Death -Davies seems to be a great source for problems.

I don't think it's about solving the problem but rather seeing the position and being able to read out every possibility.

I'm also having the same problem concerning observation 7.
User avatar
gogameguru
Lives in gote
Posts: 477
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:18 pm
Rank: 5d
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 192 times
Been thanked: 357 times
Contact:

Re: New tsume-go technique

Post by gogameguru »

Thanks for the tip John.

I believe daal invented this study technique independently almost two years ago :) (which was also an interesting discussion). Hearing the suggestion from a very authoritative source does add credence to the idea though, especially hearing about the results of Hiramoto's students.

snorri wrote:Anyone who is willing to put up with the pain probably has the right attitude to study, so whether the exercise helps or not may be impertinent. The real value may be in testing your willingness to do whatever is necessary, despite the pain.
That's one way of looking at it, but another angle is that going through the 'pain' makes a normal game seem like a walk in the park. Problems make you stronger. Overcoming difficulty makes you stronger. This sort of training technique, where the pressure or difficulty is ratcheted up, is common in many disciplines. Krav Maga has this sort of idea built into its training system, for example. I also remember reading somewhere about swimmers being able to swim faster and break their personal best if they imagined a shark was chasing them :). Once they realized they could swim that fast, they could do it again without the 'shark'.
User avatar
daal
Oza
Posts: 2508
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:30 am
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 1304 times
Been thanked: 1128 times

Re: New tsume-go technique

Post by daal »

gogameguru wrote:I believe daal invented this study technique independently almost two years ago :) (which was also an interesting discussion). Hearing the suggestion from a very authoritative source does add credence to the idea though, especially hearing about the results of Hiramoto's students.


Thanks for the mention, but there are a few significant differences between what I was trying to do and Hiramoto's method, though it's no coincidence that I found his idea fascinating. What I was trying was simply to improve my visualization abilities, but in retrospect, and particularly in comparison with what Hiramoto suggests, I think I focused too much on the stones themselves instead of on the contested space and the properties of the involved groups. By "properties" I mean things like their liberty count, whether they can be cut, the size and shape of the space they define etc. Being able to "see" their position in one's mind's eye is better viewed as a side-effect of thinking about the stone's properties than a goal in itself. If a stone's role is to be part of a surrounding chain, then it's not important to see it, it's enough to know it. Hiromoto's idea is that one should blend out irrelevant information by focusing on the crux of the problem, and it seems like a great way to practice making the distinction between what is important and what is secondary.
Patience, grasshopper.
foeZ
Dies in gote
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 7:14 am
Rank: Relinquished
GD Posts: 0
KGS: foeZ
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: New tsume-go technique

Post by foeZ »

Oddly enough, I have a similar reading technique since I started playing go again after 2 years.
It's surprising that I am reading this today when I was pondering over how to "create" or find a reading technique that works.

Reading has always been one of my weakest points in go. But over the 2 years that I hadn't played go, I learned some things that can be applied to playing go and reading sequences.

The first thing that came to mind is remembering people's names after meeting them only once!
I've always had trouble with that too. Until I met someone who claimed he could remember anyones name for the rest of his life after meeting them once.
Ofcourse I was curious about that, and then he explained to me how he did it.

For every person, he would find a character trait or something that stood out about the person he met.
For example: short, tall, happy, old, big nose, calm.

Then he told me that he linked whatever trait he thought of first upon seeing them and linked it to their name while shaking their hand.

Let's say he met Jim. Jim was a tall man with big ears and slightly balding. He said to me, this is "Jumbo Jim". He reminds me of dumbo the elephant and Jumbo also means big or tall. That's how I will never forget his name for the rest of my life.

Then I thought to myself, that's brilliant! And I tried to find ways to apply it to my reading in go.
I found a way to link certain corner shapes with their vital points strengths and weaknesses.

For example: L+2 in the corner is alive because he has some back support.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c L+2 Shape.
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ . . . O . O X X X . |
$$ . . . . O X X . S . |
$$ . . . . . . . . S . |
$$ ---------------------[/go]


Depending on which side white plays the hane, black can play one of these squares to make life in the corner. Now if you would turn this shape 90° to the right, it would feel like it's about to tip over to the back. That's where the vital points come in. They would bring the shape into perfect balance by letting it support on the vital point.

I hope that made sense :p
Post Reply