Walls and influence in a nutshell

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Splatted
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Re: Walls and influence in a nutshell

Post by Splatted »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . a . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O O X X X |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . B . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Perhaps the marked black stone is a good example? It's close to the white wall but an attack seems unlikely to be profitable. Neither player has the potential for much immediate profit in the area so it's a low priority.
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skydyr
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Re: Walls and influence in a nutshell

Post by skydyr »

Splatted wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . a . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O O X X X |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . B . . . O X . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Perhaps the marked black stone is a good example? It's close to the white wall but an attack seems unlikely to be profitable. Neither player has the potential for much immediate profit in the area so it's a low priority.


I was thinking this as well.
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Re: Walls and influence in a nutshell

Post by PeterPeter »

How about these for guidelines?

If the enemy stone is very close to your wall, and weak (no base potential), you do not attack it as it is likely to get swallowed up during the course of the game and is therefore irrelevant.

If the enemy stone is distant to your wall (say, over 10 spaces away), and not already at risk, you do not attack it as it is likely to end up as dame, and thus be of little value.

If the enemy stone has potential to make a base in front of your wall, you attack it as long as doing so develops a useful moyo for you.
Regards,

Peter
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Unusedname
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Re: Walls and influence in a nutshell

Post by Unusedname »

PeterPeter wrote:How about these for guidelines?

If the enemy stone is very close to your wall, and weak (no base potential), you do not attack it as it is likely to get swallowed up during the course of the game and is therefore irrelevant.

If the enemy stone is distant to your wall (say, over 10 spaces away), and not already at risk, you do not attack it as it is likely to end up as dame, and thus be of little value.

If the enemy stone has potential to make a base in front of your wall, you attack it as long as doing so develops a useful moyo for you.


These are some strange guidelines to follow. I think instead of making general rules you should try to have a better feel of what a wall allows you to do.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . W . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


The first clue is you said what if White plays a and then follows up with b.

Does the black group look like it's in any trouble?
White has played 3 moves and it's still as strong as ever. So for white to get these three moves black gets three moves somewhere else for free.

Compare that to

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Here white has played only 2 moves and now black is being severely attacked.
Can you feel the difference in strength between this position where white gets 2 free moves and the other position where black got 3 free moves?

So now if we apply this knowledge that it takes 3 moves to attack the thickness:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . 6 . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . 4 . 5 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . 2 . 3 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . 5 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . 3 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


So what is happening here.

Thickness
:w2: Thickness can easily play on the other side because it is strong.
:w4: Thickness is still under no imediate threat and white has a clearly weak group
:w6: Thickness is a little nervous but still in better shape then the lone 4-4 stone.

4-4 Stone
:w2: It is normal to pincer this stone.
:w4: Now it's strange to follow with :b5: because you allow your corner to be surrounded.

Idk if these are the best examples but it's something to think about.
Imo to get better at using thickness you should get better at evaluating a group's strength.
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quantumf
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Re: Walls and influence in a nutshell

Post by quantumf »

Unusedname wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . W . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I'd like to elaborate on this example. White has played 3 moves in this area, because he needed to limit the possibility of this wall turning into a large territorial framework. However, because black is so strong, white has to play quite a few moves to ensure that he has a viable shape. If the white stones get any points at all,they will be negligible. Black need not immediately or directly attack these stones, and can instead cash in on the 'investment' of the wall by playing big points elsewhere. Of course, he can attack the stones. It's up to him. So an additional benefit of the thickness/influence is more options. Or, put another way, although you may be behind in points, you're more likely to be control of the tempo and nature of the game.
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Re: Walls and influence in a nutshell

Post by Amelia »

Phoenix wrote:Using these things properly is something that you acquire as you try it out, and perhaps study games of pros or strong amateurs.

Yuan Zhou has written a number of pro games commentaries that are easy to read and understand for kyu players. I think it's a good way to have examples of how something like thickness and influence can change the flow of a game. Skillfull play with lots of subtitles :)
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Re: Walls and influence in a nutshell

Post by Bantari »

When I think about walls, these are the three main questions I think of:

1. What are walls?

Wall is just that - a wall. If nothing else happens, it will likely become one side of a possibly large territory. So, to prevent this, the opponent will always have to worry about it. This is a good thing.

Another aspect of the wall is strength - although these two ideas are not really the same. Strength allows you to fight in other parts of the board without worrying about the wall/strength coming under attack (as in - splitting attack). This gives you some peace of mind, which is good.

One important thing to note here is that walls and strength are not the same. Some walls can be week, some can be very week. Such walls have much more limited use because you *do* have to worry about them getting under attack and you cannot afford to play freely without worry. So it is important to judge the strength of your wall as well.

But all in all - a wall is a good thing for you and potential trouble for your opponent.

2. How to play with respect to walls?

To me, Go groups (or even stones) are like magnets - except that they all have the same polarity and so repel each other. Generally, the larger a group of stones the more its repelling force - thus you play farther away from it. This goes both for your own groups and for the opponent's groups. Walls are groups wich repel the most (because all the repelling force of all stones is pointed in the same direction), usually, so you try to play away from them.

Of course, as the game progresses, you play closer and closer to other stones/groups. So I think about it as the magnetic 'power' of the stones diminishes over time. Eventually, a moment will come when you be able (or have to) to play close(r) to a wall, be it your wall of your opponent's. The trick is to utilize your own wall before that happens, and prevent your opponent from utilizing his/her.

You can utilize your own walls by trying to play stones which work with the wall, outlining areas or even moyos. This will force your opponent to jump in, hopefully, at which point you can attack. If he/she fails to invade or reduce, the wall will turn directly into points eventually.

Conversely, you will try to prevent your opponent from doing the same to you.

3. How to use a wall?

I already hinted at most of it - you use it for attacking, for peace of mind (fighting elsewhere without worry), and for building territory/moyos.

Most popular way of using a wall is for attack. This combines the concepts above. Because your opponent has to worry that, if nothing is done, the wall will eventually become a side of a large territory, at some point he/she will have to do something about it. This means approaching the wall to minimize its potential. In such situation, the approaching sone can be pincered and might come under attack. The main idea is to push the weak stone towards your wall.

A typical outcome of such fight is not usually death of a group, but maybe another wall, facing in some more advantageous for you direction. You can imagine a series of walls, each created by attacking stones approaching the previous wall, with the last wall eventually being used to make direct points. But sometimes the attacking groups die... or other groups die when you can stage a splitting attack. This all connects to the reasons for attacking and the advantages you can have by doing so - but this is another topic.

Another thing is - there is also a danger that during the course of the game, a wall will become neutralized. This can happen, for example, if your opponent will build his/her own wall facing your wall, or create a strong group in vicinity of your wall. A lot of times this involves such concepts as proper joseki choice or even non-joseki moves. It gets complicated.

And also: Influence?

I was trying to explain how I see walls without using the word 'influence', because this is what everybody else seems to be doing.

But influence is a great way to explain many things in Go, which is why people keep talking about it so much. You can see stones/groups/walls as radiating influence. The concept of neutralizing a wall can be then explained by overlapping spheres influence. If influence is not deal with timely, it might easily become solid points. And so on... Walls create more influence than other kinds groups, so this is one reason they are important to understand.

PS>
Not sure if all this makes any sense... cannot think straight today... just another day at the Bantari office. ;)
- Bantari
______________________________________________
WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!
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Thunkd
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Re: Walls and influence in a nutshell

Post by Thunkd »

quantumf wrote:
Unusedname wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . W . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I'd like to elaborate on this example. White has played 3 moves in this area, because he needed to limit the possibility of this wall turning into a large territorial framework. However, because black is so strong, white has to play quite a few moves to ensure that he has a viable shape. If the white stones get any points at all,they will be negligible. Black need not immediately or directly attack these stones, and can instead cash in on the 'investment' of the wall by playing big points elsewhere. Of course, he can attack the stones. It's up to him. So an additional benefit of the thickness/influence is more options. Or, put another way, although you may be behind in points, you're more likely to be control of the tempo and nature of the game.


I still don't get this. So after the initial white stone played close to black's wall, black tenukis and white establishes a base. Black can get another free move somewhere else as well. Admittedly white won't get many points here, but so much of blacks potential in the area has been destroyed. And perhaps this is offset by his free moves elsewhere... but a simple pincer after white's initial move lets black easily harry the white stone while developing the right side. If white jumps you can follow for a move or two. Then you can tenuki and take a big move elsewhere. You still let white live, white is still not making territory (even less actually) and you get one fewer free move somewhere else, but I don't see a single move that can create as much potential as the bottom right that you were able to build up. Is this really a good example of where to tenuki a white invasion?
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skydyr
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Re: Walls and influence in a nutshell

Post by skydyr »

Thunkd wrote:I still don't get this. So after the initial white stone played close to black's wall, black tenukis and white establishes a base. Black can get another free move somewhere else as well. Admittedly white won't get many points here, but so much of blacks potential in the area has been destroyed. And perhaps this is offset by his free moves elsewhere... but a simple pincer after white's initial move lets black easily harry the white stone while developing the right side. If white jumps you can follow for a move or two. Then you can tenuki and take a big move elsewhere. You still let white live, white is still not making territory (even less actually) and you get one fewer free move somewhere else, but I don't see a single move that can create as much potential as the bottom right that you were able to build up. Is this really a good example of where to tenuki a white invasion?


It's not the best example, but consider the board with some bog-standard black moves added elsewhere:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . B . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . W . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . W . . W . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Who got more with their three moves?


Bear in mind that to make the entire bottom territory, black would have had to spend several moves there as well, and white would still be able to reduce.
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amnal
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Re: Walls and influence in a nutshell

Post by amnal »

Is this really a good example of where to tenuki a white invasion?


I think it's an example of how tenuki may not be a significant mistake, but I have to agree that pincering white is really obvious and strong.

Part of this is that white has already arguably made a mistake by playing the 3-3 invasion so early...and even facing a super strong shimari. In that case it's not really surprising that black does fine, because he can make his own mistakes and still get an even position. I don't want an even position though, as black I want a slightly better one ;)

If white plays these threee moves and black gets 3 of his own (some double approaches or whatever), it does seem fine for black, but I think this misses the point that pincering white is super duper easy and obvious and powerful and seems like what I would definitely want to use the wall for.

skydyr wrote:Bear in mind that to make the entire bottom territory, black would have had to spend several moves there as well, and white would still be able to reduce.


Part of the value of the wall is that black wouldn't need many moves to make quite a lot of territory on the bottom. Of course white can still invade even with a black stone in the middle, but such an invasion cannot fail to give black something massive on one side or the other.

Again, I agree that black getting 3 moves makes the game fine for him, but I still think this is mixed up with the issue that black can make mistakes of his own and come out ahead thanks to the early 3-3 invasion, plus that just because black can do fine by tenuki doesn't mean the (clearly also strong) pincer isn't as good or better.
Last edited by amnal on Thu May 30, 2013 7:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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skydyr
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Re: Walls and influence in a nutshell

Post by skydyr »

Let me be clear that I agree with amnal here and pincering is the obvious choice, in case it wasn't clear from what I said earlier as well.
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Re: Walls and influence in a nutshell

Post by jts »

Just two interesting semi-classic posts for people new to the forum.

Bill Spight on how to use walls:
viewtopic.php?p=36356#p36356
viewtopic.php?p=38322

John Fairbairn on thickness:
viewtopic.php?p=47787

I think if you are feeling that you don't understand walls and influence, the best tack is to play an extremely territorial strategy for a while. After playing four or five games like this you'll start to feel an unpleasant twist in your stomach when your opponent makes the moves you've started to fear. And that's the point where you're starting to understand how to use influence.

Many people who have trouble deciding what moves are good for them to play, nonethless know with a chilling certainty which moves would be painful for the opponent to play - but of course, what's good for the one is painful for the other, and vice versa.
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Re: Walls and influence in a nutshell

Post by Polama »

The consensus is that black ought to just pincer in the example given earlier of where you might use a wall to tenuki. So who has some ideas of how to modify the position slightly such that tenuki is worth considering?

Here's one thought to start things rolling:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . W . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


White escapes from a pincer easily, so the position doesn't feel urgent to me any more. If black didn't have a wall, he might have to play locally to keep white from playing on the left and sealing him in.
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Re: Walls and influence in a nutshell

Post by skydyr »

Polama wrote:The consensus is that black ought to just pincer in the example given earlier of where you might use a wall to tenuki. So who has some ideas of how to modify the position slightly such that tenuki is worth considering?

Here's one thought to start things rolling:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . W . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


White escapes from a pincer easily, so the position doesn't feel urgent to me any more. If black didn't have a wall, he might have to play locally to keep white from playing on the left and sealing him in.


Um... Black is still missing two stones on the board?
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Re: Walls and influence in a nutshell

Post by Polama »

skydyr wrote:Um... Black is still missing two stones on the board?


That'll teach him not to go to the bathroom without memorizing the board position first.
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