#193 TIM82 vs EdLee

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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm119 :w2:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . X , . X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O X . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . O . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | X . X O X . . . O . X X O O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O . . . . . . O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . O 1 W X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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TIM82
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Post by TIM82 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm119 :w2:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . X , . X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O X . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . O . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | X . X O X . . . O . X X O O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O . . . . . . O . . 2 O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . O 1 W X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Just to remove the stone from the board to the lid. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm119 :w3:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . X , . X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O X . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . O . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | X . X O X . . . O . X X O O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O . . . . . . O . . 2 O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm121 :w3:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . 1 X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . X , . X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O X . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . O . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | X . X O X . . . O . X X O O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O . . . . . . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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TIM82
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Re:

Post by TIM82 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm121 :w3:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . 2 1 X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . X , . X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O X . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . O . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | X . X O X . . . O . X X O O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O . . . . . . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm123 :w3:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . X , . X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O X . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . O . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | X . X O X . . . O . X X O O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O . . . . . 1 O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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TIM82
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Re:

Post by TIM82 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm123 :w3:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . X , . X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O X . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . O . 2 . . . . X X . . |
$$ | X . X O X . . . O . X X O O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O . . . . . 1 O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Either I just hit the jackpot or I have miscalculated brutally. :scratch:
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Post by EdLee »

:black: :black:

Tim, thank you for the game -- have a nice summer! :)
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Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee

Post by TIM82 »

Thank you too - it was a fun game and I think I also learned some things from it - this was my first correspondence game ever, having time to think well was really nice. Re: improving: At least I have managed to make some even wins agains local 2 dans lately :)

I'll make a post-mortem of some key points from my perspective later in the evening.
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Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee

Post by wineandgolover »

Wow, these games are so long!

April 7 tesuji wins the day. :bow:
- Brady
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Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee

Post by Magicwand »

i didnt really count but...it appears that black is still winning. no?
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

wineandgolover wrote:Wow, these games are so long!
April 7 tesuji wins the day.
My previous game was 11 days short of 1 year. :)
Which Apr 7 move ( :w94: ? Because of time zone differences, time stamps are local! ) ?

MW: my counting is terrible, but even without w124 I thought I was behind.
I'm sure my mistakes were much earlier.
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Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee

Post by TIM82 »

Magicwand wrote:i didnt really count but...it appears that black is still winning. no?


I suck at counting, but in my counting I was cruising to comfortable victory already before 123-124?

sgf with some comments below. To sum in one sentence why I think I got ahead: In multiple situations I was able to grap sente from local situation - I don't think I should have gotten it so often so easily (46, 66&70, 92(kindof, from side area), 102, 114-116)

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Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee

Post by drmwc »

Doesn't B have resources in the final position?


First B cuts to see if W wants to kill the central two black stones. Assume W does:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . 6 O 5 X , . X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 3 4 . . X . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O X . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . O . 2 . . . . X X . . |
$$ | X . X O X . . . O . X X O O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O . . . . . 1 O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Now B commences central operations. Again, W has a choice but W 8 below is (I think) forced if W wants the lot:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm7
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . O O X X , . X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O 5 . X . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . 8 O X 4 6 . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . 7 O 1 O 2 . . . X X . . |
$$ | X . X O X . . . O 3 X X O O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O . . . . . X O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Now B has a tesuji in centre:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm15
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . O O X X , . X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O X O O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . X O X O O . . . X X . . |
$$ | X . X O X . 3 2 O X X X O O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O . . . 1 . X O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O O . . . O X . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Now W has a choice. Suppose W captures:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm18
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . O O X X , . X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O X O O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O 5 . 1 3 O X O O . . . X X . . |
$$ | X . X O X 4 X O O X X X O O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O . . 2 X . X O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O O 6 . . O X . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O X 7 . . O . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . 8 . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


W may play 24 at 25. It's unclear to me what happens in this case, but B seems to get a plausible looking semeai. (I haven't included any diagrams for this line.)

Again W has a choice. Caturing the stone looks ropey, so W may well extend:



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm26
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . O O X X , . X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . a X X O X . X . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O X O O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . O O O X O O b . . X X . . |
$$ | X . X O X X X O O X X X O O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O . . X X . X O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O O X . . O X . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O X O 1 . O . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O . 3 2 X . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . 5 4 . 6 . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


B gets a ko. I think B has some loacl threats (e.g. playing at a threatens the top left white group which can be cut off if W ignores the threat. The move at b is also a threat) So it's unclear B ha lost.

Going back, W may not caputre in anwer to B's tesuji:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm18
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X . . . O O X X . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X X . . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . X O O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O X O O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . O O X X , . X . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X . X . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O 2 O O X O O . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O . 4 3 5 O X O O . . . X X . . |
$$ | X . X O X . X O O X X X O O . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X O . 6 1 X . X O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O X O O 8 7 . O X . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . X X O O X . . . O . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


B plays some ataris and pushes, and W seems to be in trouble.


There is an English Go proverb: Resigning never won a game of Go.
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The Intrepid
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Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee

Post by The Intrepid »

drmwc wrote:There is an English Go proverb: Resigning never won a game of Go.
I wouldn't be surprised if this proverb is borrowed from a corresponding chess saying. :)
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
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