Again, thanks for letting us live vicariously through your experiences, even the slightly disappointing ones.
Playing fast is hard, but perhaps fast reading is exactly what you need now to up your game.
Good luck, and keep reporting!
Uberdude's Go holiday journal
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wineandgolover
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Re: Uberdude's Go holiday journal
- Brady
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Tami
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Re: Uberdude's Go holiday journal
I like your blog! 
It`s good to see so many pictures and to read about your experiences as they unfold. Are you enjoying yourself? Do you feel that you are learning a lot?
I`d love to know what those kids from Lee Sedol`s academy did to get so strong so quickly. Do the teachers make them solve a lot of problems? Do they play a lot over the board and/or online?
If only I could get more than a week`s holiday! I wish I could spend a month or more studying go every day with like-minded people. Still, reading about it is almost as good
So, thanks for that.
It`s good to see so many pictures and to read about your experiences as they unfold. Are you enjoying yourself? Do you feel that you are learning a lot?I`d love to know what those kids from Lee Sedol`s academy did to get so strong so quickly. Do the teachers make them solve a lot of problems? Do they play a lot over the board and/or online?
If only I could get more than a week`s holiday! I wish I could spend a month or more studying go every day with like-minded people. Still, reading about it is almost as good
So, thanks for that.Learn the "tea-stealing" tesuji! Cho Chikun demonstrates here:
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Uberdude
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Re: Uberdude's Go holiday journal
Yesterday I got to 6d on Tygem. I'd won my first 11 games as 5d but then was really stupid and lost one I was massively leading (totally outplayed him in a moyo game, e.g. he gave me sente 3-3 invasion, but then instead of passing and winning by 30 I tried to kill him and he counterattacked and I died massively). Would've been funny to leapfrog from 3d to 5d to 7d with a 38 game winning streak (especially after losing to some 2ds!). Lost my first game as 6d by 0.5 after good start but 6d's desperate attempts to catch up aren't so easy to quash.
We also watched some of the LG cup games and then reviewed them ourselves and then with teachers. Richard looked at Iyama Yuta's. In the opening we preferred black nobi in lower left after attach, then if white connects left hoshi, white blocks corner, then atari top left stone. Sojin was shocked at white's sacrifice of top right, surely good for black, but then maybe he was too happy because the kosumi defence of the press on the right afterwards was very slack, maybe a losing move, at least one space jump to centre from right hoshi stone, or maybe even a tenuki reduction of centre possible as white's "thickness" group from the top right trade isn't actually alive yet so it's not so easy to defend the centre points. But then the trade of the ponnukis was awesome for white (his was worth more than 30 points, black's less than 20) who also got to ladder the 2 stones on his wall. Black had to pull out his stone from atari. A normal choice after white's blocking attachment (as leaning on the other stone wasn't effective) was just nobi along letting white build centre and then use the wall to kill white's thickness.
I looked at Gu Li's game, not reviewed with teachers yet, and Thomas at Lee Sedol's.
In the evening I played a league game (30 mins plus 30 secs 3 times) with Wangyu, one of the kids who went to the Lee Sedol academy match at the weekend. I was rather lucky to win with a time tesuji that I only realised was a real tesuji too as I played it!
We also watched some of the LG cup games and then reviewed them ourselves and then with teachers. Richard looked at Iyama Yuta's. In the opening we preferred black nobi in lower left after attach, then if white connects left hoshi, white blocks corner, then atari top left stone. Sojin was shocked at white's sacrifice of top right, surely good for black, but then maybe he was too happy because the kosumi defence of the press on the right afterwards was very slack, maybe a losing move, at least one space jump to centre from right hoshi stone, or maybe even a tenuki reduction of centre possible as white's "thickness" group from the top right trade isn't actually alive yet so it's not so easy to defend the centre points. But then the trade of the ponnukis was awesome for white (his was worth more than 30 points, black's less than 20) who also got to ladder the 2 stones on his wall. Black had to pull out his stone from atari. A normal choice after white's blocking attachment (as leaning on the other stone wasn't effective) was just nobi along letting white build centre and then use the wall to kill white's thickness.
I looked at Gu Li's game, not reviewed with teachers yet, and Thomas at Lee Sedol's.
In the evening I played a league game (30 mins plus 30 secs 3 times) with Wangyu, one of the kids who went to the Lee Sedol academy match at the weekend. I was rather lucky to win with a time tesuji that I only realised was a real tesuji too as I played it!
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Uberdude
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Re: Uberdude's Go holiday journal
A comment from On Sojin 7p I found really interesting is he said this white 6 is a mistake, should answer with small knight's move. I myself have thought that the result from taking the corner is good for black who is alive with good shape and has some points, whereas white has some vague influence that can be a weak group later (see viewtopic.php?p=118879#p118879).
This has been played many times professionally (though knight's move is more common overall, particularly recently), but Sojin was adamant it was a mistake with black double 4-4s. If black 3 is 3-4 aiming for mini chinese then pincer is ok, (but knight's move probably still preferred).
This has been played many times professionally (though knight's move is more common overall, particularly recently), but Sojin was adamant it was a mistake with black double 4-4s. If black 3 is 3-4 aiming for mini chinese then pincer is ok, (but knight's move probably still preferred).
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Uberdude
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Re: Uberdude's Go holiday journal
So here's Gu Li's game I reviewed myself, and then with Dia and Richard:
d15 at r14 (or r13 or r12 but I prefer r14, as no most pros recently, for more solid corner given we strengthen white side stone to develop lower side) would be normal if top left was a 4-4, with 3-4 approach is also big.
The meaning of r12 was probably to stop white answering e13 at p14.
q12 solid, if f4 then black may s11, or given top side potential perhaps the unusual looking q12 s13 q14 to build a wall
c18 is not needed to live, but a black play there is sente which is very painful, and w living with b12 attachment loses d12 cut aji
d5 surprising, w block at c5 is soft as black can attacj at d3 and if white hanes then atari and h5 cap is powerful. Normal move locally is d3 and can lead to corner life, but then white cuts off f3 and gets strong on lower side so p4 is nice to attack m3.
d6 is trying to make sense of c12 (if white takes corner black makes left side) and means w has to take gote after black takes the corner
b1 a nice tesuji to cut off f3 in sente
f6 should maybe be d8 peep first if he wants both, but that's a bit hopeful
d10 nice resistance, maybe black was self indulgent in expecting connect?
p4 necessary defence now h3 strong
e11, I wondered if black should try to make the r15 q14 s14 s13 exchanges first to protect the corner (if white 3-3 then block top and let white make sente ponnuki but keep corner). Dia said a commentary on cyber oro said the same
g10 wasn't sente, r17 good to take corner
With e8 black tries to punish white from ignoring g10 and not answering d8 peep with capture, but the sequence gained black nothing but a heavy group. Perhaps Gu Li missed that he had to play g8, it looks like he can play b7 but then white g8, black a8, white a10 and black can't connect to the corner due to shortage of liberties by the white stones in atari in the corner!
g5 strange shape to me, trying to use f3
j13 nice move to stop h16 cut due to liberty shortage. Gu Li doesn't seem to be his usual strong self. Dia said the oro commentary said he wandered round a lot, perhaps upset that his left sequence didn't work out well.
if f18 is ponnuki capture on outside, maybe white can f18 rather than atari and revert, seems to lead to a semeai.
127, if connect then his group is heavy, or did he want to save it for another ko threat? But when white captures his centre 3 stones are alive and good profit
l18 lives half the group so success for white
j4, if r7 then white l4 bigger
s5, if inside hand then white is about 10 ahead, so b has to fight
l6 very nice tesuji: if capture then w ataris and ladders.
Dia said the Oro commentary also said black's left sequence was a failure.
d15 at r14 (or r13 or r12 but I prefer r14, as no most pros recently, for more solid corner given we strengthen white side stone to develop lower side) would be normal if top left was a 4-4, with 3-4 approach is also big.
The meaning of r12 was probably to stop white answering e13 at p14.
q12 solid, if f4 then black may s11, or given top side potential perhaps the unusual looking q12 s13 q14 to build a wall
c18 is not needed to live, but a black play there is sente which is very painful, and w living with b12 attachment loses d12 cut aji
d5 surprising, w block at c5 is soft as black can attacj at d3 and if white hanes then atari and h5 cap is powerful. Normal move locally is d3 and can lead to corner life, but then white cuts off f3 and gets strong on lower side so p4 is nice to attack m3.
d6 is trying to make sense of c12 (if white takes corner black makes left side) and means w has to take gote after black takes the corner
b1 a nice tesuji to cut off f3 in sente
f6 should maybe be d8 peep first if he wants both, but that's a bit hopeful
d10 nice resistance, maybe black was self indulgent in expecting connect?
p4 necessary defence now h3 strong
e11, I wondered if black should try to make the r15 q14 s14 s13 exchanges first to protect the corner (if white 3-3 then block top and let white make sente ponnuki but keep corner). Dia said a commentary on cyber oro said the same
g10 wasn't sente, r17 good to take corner
With e8 black tries to punish white from ignoring g10 and not answering d8 peep with capture, but the sequence gained black nothing but a heavy group. Perhaps Gu Li missed that he had to play g8, it looks like he can play b7 but then white g8, black a8, white a10 and black can't connect to the corner due to shortage of liberties by the white stones in atari in the corner!
g5 strange shape to me, trying to use f3
j13 nice move to stop h16 cut due to liberty shortage. Gu Li doesn't seem to be his usual strong self. Dia said the oro commentary said he wandered round a lot, perhaps upset that his left sequence didn't work out well.
if f18 is ponnuki capture on outside, maybe white can f18 rather than atari and revert, seems to lead to a semeai.
127, if connect then his group is heavy, or did he want to save it for another ko threat? But when white captures his centre 3 stones are alive and good profit
l18 lives half the group so success for white
j4, if r7 then white l4 bigger
s5, if inside hand then white is about 10 ahead, so b has to fight
l6 very nice tesuji: if capture then w ataris and ladders.
Dia said the Oro commentary also said black's left sequence was a failure.
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Uberdude
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Re: Uberdude's Go holiday journal
Been a few days since the last update. On Friday On Sojin 7p played in the Korean baduk league against Shin Minjoon 1p, one of the young rising stars who featured in the youngsters vs top pros match a few months ago (http://gogameguru.com/prodigies-upset-t ... -go-games/). On the Thursday we'd watched the first 2 boards in which Lee Changho 9p beat Lee Sedol 9p and Park Yeounghun 9p beat Kang Yootaek 5p, so Sojin's team were already 0-2 down. The plan was to go into the Hankuk Kiwon to watch the games, but that was called off with Sojin's team losing which was disapointing. Sojin lost too, he died big in the opening ("sacrifice strategy!" as he likes to say) and got some squeeze to grow his centre moyo but he had to go for a rather desperate kill of the invasion and resigned when that failed.
Reviewing the game with Youngun 7d (who narrowly beat me on 6 stones in another 10 second game, and beat Hiroki on 9 stones!), the problem seemed to be he played this variation when he had the ladder that stops white laddering the one stone with
at 
, but white had the ladder on the 3 stones so his shape for the fighting was poor. Youngun suggested playing ladder breaker at a after white's attachment of 
because if answers the corner fight is better, and if white reinforces at 
it is a small minus exchange but you get compensation with the block at b (better than c). Sojin's not been into BIBA since this game so I don't know his opinion yet. He's not been studying baduk much lately as he has an English exam coming up. He wants to do well because if he gets a good mark there's a better chance he can do his 2 years military service (at 27 he's left it quite late) with the some division associated with the US army which is apparently better.
The ladder white has is at
which means black needs to make the atari there rather than 
directly, but then white gets some pushes in sente to strengthen his stones and black gets bad shape.
White then denies black the ko with
and the cut at 
doesn't capture anything thanks to those pushes along line 6 that white got.
Something to note is the placement of white l3 on the 3rd line is crucial here, if it were on the 4th line at hoshi then black could make these exchanges in sente before playing he corner attachment and now white doesn't have that ladder anymore, in fact black captures white's cut in a ladder if the same sequence happens.
White can kill the corner, but the trade is good for black when he munches the 4th line stone, which he can't if it were on the 3rd line.
Also I played some more league games. I lost to Mingjong (who I beat in the game in post #22) after a reasonable opening with plenty of trades and fighting spirit (Youngun said my sacrifice was good), but then my first move of byo-yomi I panicked and got squeezed and captured in a ladder. Doh! But I did beat Hyeonbin by thirty or so in a game where he went for a centre territory rather than trying to kill me, and it just wasn't enough.
P.S. maybe the lower right shimari was the other way round.
Reviewing the game with Youngun 7d (who narrowly beat me on 6 stones in another 10 second game, and beat Hiroki on 9 stones!), the problem seemed to be he played this variation when he had the ladder that stops white laddering the one stone with
at , but white had the ladder on the 3 stones so his shape for the fighting was poor. Youngun suggested playing ladder breaker at a after white's attachment of because if answers the corner fight is better, and if white reinforces at it is a small minus exchange but you get compensation with the block at b (better than c). Sojin's not been into BIBA since this game so I don't know his opinion yet. He's not been studying baduk much lately as he has an English exam coming up. He wants to do well because if he gets a good mark there's a better chance he can do his 2 years military service (at 27 he's left it quite late) with the some division associated with the US army which is apparently better.The ladder white has is at
which means black needs to make the atari there rather than directly, but then white gets some pushes in sente to strengthen his stones and black gets bad shape.White then denies black the ko with
and the cut at doesn't capture anything thanks to those pushes along line 6 that white got.Something to note is the placement of white l3 on the 3rd line is crucial here, if it were on the 4th line at hoshi then black could make these exchanges in sente before playing he corner attachment and now white doesn't have that ladder anymore, in fact black captures white's cut in a ladder if the same sequence happens.
White can kill the corner, but the trade is good for black when he munches the 4th line stone, which he can't if it were on the 3rd line.
Also I played some more league games. I lost to Mingjong (who I beat in the game in post #22) after a reasonable opening with plenty of trades and fighting spirit (Youngun said my sacrifice was good), but then my first move of byo-yomi I panicked and got squeezed and captured in a ladder. Doh! But I did beat Hyeonbin by thirty or so in a game where he went for a centre territory rather than trying to kill me, and it just wasn't enough.
P.S. maybe the lower right shimari was the other way round.
Last edited by Uberdude on Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Uberdude
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Re: Uberdude's Go holiday journal
On Friday/Saturday I got into a bit of a slump and lost 4 games in a row on Tygem, rather spoiling my 11-2 record at 6d so far. I also sucked at solving some quite basic tsumego. I took a break from Go and went for a nice little walk in the woods on the kills around Sanbon:
And here's a view of Sanbon. I'm hoping to climb that hill in the background later, but that'll be a whole day's walk. That green net in the lower right is a contained golf driving range; making best use of limited space! I saw one on the trip into Seoul too.
And a panoroma from the same spot, aren't cameras clever nowadays!
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And here's a view of Sanbon. I'm hoping to climb that hill in the background later, but that'll be a whole day's walk. That green net in the lower right is a contained golf driving range; making best use of limited space! I saw one on the trip into Seoul too.
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And a panoroma from the same spot, aren't cameras clever nowadays!
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Uberdude
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Re: Uberdude's Go holiday journal
Today I played in the Hanbyon (spelling?), the monthly rating tournament for kids (from the whole Seoul area I think, some from the Lee Sedol academy were there). By a happy accident it is held in a school just a few minutes from Blackie's flat.
Here's some nice artwork on one of the club minibuses that brought the kids here.
The tournament was in the school hall, I counted 132 boards. There were 10 divisions, I was in #5 as was Hyeonbin. Mingjong, Wangyu, and Pyongyu were in #1. Maybe I could be in #3 if the games weren't so fast, but Thomas got 3/5 in #5 last month. "Little monsters" he called them
. Thomas was registered, but decided not to go this time so it was just me and I got a little bit lost on the way (went to the middle school next door first, it was in the elementary school). I noticed in the corridor some posters of various Korean stars including Park Ji-sung (footballer at Manchester United) and Cho Hun-hyun, the 'baduk emperor' (and some gymnast and tennis and badminton players I didn't recognise).
Here's the opening ceremony with some prize-giving, check out the little kid on the right, can't have been more than 5 or 6. He was in group 9 or 10:
- P1000140.jpg (130.51 KiB) Viewed 16392 times
Here's some nice artwork on one of the club minibuses that brought the kids here.
- P1000131.jpg (134.97 KiB) Viewed 16392 times
The tournament was in the school hall, I counted 132 boards. There were 10 divisions, I was in #5 as was Hyeonbin. Mingjong, Wangyu, and Pyongyu were in #1. Maybe I could be in #3 if the games weren't so fast, but Thomas got 3/5 in #5 last month. "Little monsters" he called them
. Thomas was registered, but decided not to go this time so it was just me and I got a little bit lost on the way (went to the middle school next door first, it was in the elementary school). I noticed in the corridor some posters of various Korean stars including Park Ji-sung (footballer at Manchester United) and Cho Hun-hyun, the 'baduk emperor' (and some gymnast and tennis and badminton players I didn't recognise).Here's the opening ceremony with some prize-giving, check out the little kid on the right, can't have been more than 5 or 6. He was in group 9 or 10:
- P1000122.jpg (113.26 KiB) Viewed 16390 times
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Uberdude
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Re: Uberdude's Go holiday journal
The hall:
Some of the group 1 players:
I won my first 2 games, the first was a fairly sane Kobayashi opening game with a bit of fighting later, but nothing bonkers happened and I won by some reasonable amount of points.
For lunch I went to a nearby shop I got a triangle of rice wrapped in seaweed with a bit of meat, a popular equivalent of a sandwich here (they also had some sandwiches but looked rather unappetizing spongy white bread), and a pastry and yogurt drink.
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Some of the group 1 players:
- P1000128.jpg (116.25 KiB) Viewed 16388 times
I won my first 2 games, the first was a fairly sane Kobayashi opening game with a bit of fighting later, but nothing bonkers happened and I won by some reasonable amount of points.
For lunch I went to a nearby shop I got a triangle of rice wrapped in seaweed with a bit of meat, a popular equivalent of a sandwich here (they also had some sandwiches but looked rather unappetizing spongy white bread), and a pastry and yogurt drink.
- P1000129.jpg (130.44 KiB) Viewed 16388 times
Last edited by Uberdude on Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Uberdude
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Re: Uberdude's Go holiday journal
View from the stage:
Results sheet (after round 2, but only round 1 results?), I'm #23 (BIBA).
Mingjong won all his games, he's on the left here playing game 5.
- P1000135.jpg (200.02 KiB) Viewed 16383 times
Results sheet (after round 2, but only round 1 results?), I'm #23 (BIBA).
- P1000133.jpg (77.1 KiB) Viewed 16383 times
Mingjong won all his games, he's on the left here playing game 5.
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wineandgolover
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Re: Uberdude's Go holiday journal
So a KGS 4d is an average (group 5 of 10) strength youth tourney player in Korea? Sheesh, that is annoying.
Looking forward to more!
Looking forward to more!
- Brady
Want to see videos of low-dan mistakes and what to learn from them? Brady's Blunders
Want to see videos of low-dan mistakes and what to learn from them? Brady's Blunders
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Uberdude
- Judan
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Re: Uberdude's Go holiday journal
I had to leave quickly, so to finish the write up of the Hanybyon:
I also won my second game. I got a good result in the early opening but then I gave a picnic ko which was a shame, and his threat was a peep of the one point jump i was attacking the ko group with. But winning that ko also solidified my top side and he lost some yose there and in the end I won by 40 points or something (he resigned in the counting).
The way the tournament worked was each group was 12 boards, with group 1 2 lots of 12 I think. The organisers (twentysomething guys in the red mesh vests in the pictures, met one called Jinsoo who spoke English and was friends with Mike Cockburn, a UK player) read out the draw for each round, you play people on the same wins. Time limits were 10 minutes main with 3 lots of 30 seconds.
After lunch I played the same kid from the Lee Sedol academy who tricked me in the taisha. Looking for revenge, I had a good game, but then got flustered and screwed up (he played very fast) and made a dead in gote ko threat and several masochistic suicide moves and lost. He ended up on the top board, maybe he won the group. He was certainly stronger than my first two opponents.
As usual, after a stupid loss I was upset and played awfully and lost again. This kid did a trick joseki but I had forgotten the punishment so used up most of my 10 minutes reading it out (I got it right), but then I suicided afterwards. He also played fast and for some silly reason I answered his overplays quickly too and died.
I also won my second game. I got a good result in the early opening but then I gave a picnic ko which was a shame, and his threat was a peep of the one point jump i was attacking the ko group with. But winning that ko also solidified my top side and he lost some yose there and in the end I won by 40 points or something (he resigned in the counting).
The way the tournament worked was each group was 12 boards, with group 1 2 lots of 12 I think. The organisers (twentysomething guys in the red mesh vests in the pictures, met one called Jinsoo who spoke English and was friends with Mike Cockburn, a UK player) read out the draw for each round, you play people on the same wins. Time limits were 10 minutes main with 3 lots of 30 seconds.
After lunch I played the same kid from the Lee Sedol academy who tricked me in the taisha. Looking for revenge, I had a good game, but then got flustered and screwed up (he played very fast) and made a dead in gote ko threat and several masochistic suicide moves and lost. He ended up on the top board, maybe he won the group. He was certainly stronger than my first two opponents.
As usual, after a stupid loss I was upset and played awfully and lost again. This kid did a trick joseki but I had forgotten the punishment so used up most of my 10 minutes reading it out (I got it right), but then I suicided afterwards. He also played fast and for some silly reason I answered his overplays quickly too and died.
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snorri
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Re: Uberdude's Go holiday journal
This is a great journal. Please keep it up!
One thing I don't understand is all these Tygem games you are playing. Did you quickly run out of people to play in person? It just seems ironic to go all the way to Korea, stay with pro and other go students, and then play online.
One thing I don't understand is all these Tygem games you are playing. Did you quickly run out of people to play in person? It just seems ironic to go all the way to Korea, stay with pro and other go students, and then play online.
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Uberdude
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Re: Uberdude's Go holiday journal
It was getting quite hot in the hall, plus I was angry with myself for playing so awfully, so I went outside and had a drink to collect myself. I won my fifth game (I decided to play Korean territorial style) to end on 3/5 which was disappointing seeing as if I play my best I can win on reverse komi against the kids in the top group, but at least I didn't get 0.
Dia said it's quite common for Westerners to struggle in the hanbyon: Ali Jabarin (6d from Israel) started in top group and kept losing. As I won my first 2 games it could be good for SOS so there's a chance I could go up to 4th group (but I will have left Korea by then anyway), but on that performance it seems legitimate to stay in 5th.
Dia said it's quite common for Westerners to struggle in the hanbyon: Ali Jabarin (6d from Israel) started in top group and kept losing. As I won my first 2 games it could be good for SOS so there's a chance I could go up to 4th group (but I will have left Korea by then anyway), but on that performance it seems legitimate to stay in 5th.
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Uberdude
- Judan
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Re: Uberdude's Go holiday journal
wineandgolover wrote:So a KGS 4d is an average (group 5 of 10) strength youth tourney player in Korea? Sheesh, that is annoying.
Group 10 is around 1 dan I think, the top group will all be 8 or 9d on Tygem (but KGS 4d is about Tygem 7d ?). I played worse than when I play as a KGS 4d, I'd estimate they'd be 2 or 3d. There are kids who are kyu players in the school opposite, but they weren't at the hanbyon.