Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:26 am

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:44 pm

So, closed book or not for big bros? And am I allowed to read my little brothers hidden comments - the other team is of course off-limits?

I'll have to admit that I'm not comfortable with white position (I would have played differently earlier definitely), but I thought it might be a good learning experience, so I joined. Also, 26 sure is not the point to vary, at least we now have one nice corner ourselves.

What makes me uncomfortable are the top corners. On left, black has ideal formation after 27, and on right the point A makes nice box shape. Additionally, it's quite easy to pressure the two stones in the top to increase these corners. Both top corners require care to handle, and I don't have much experience with these enclosure + extension shapes, sorry lil' bro... If open book, I'll definitely do a refresher on these shapes and invasion points.

I consider B in response to to 27 to be quite suicidal for us - at least on initial glance, I reserve the right to chance my opinion. Too good shapes for black, not enough for us. Something at top seems needed. Perhaps strenghten the two stones with move against right, and then some action on left.

Never played this kind of malkovich before. Have to take care to not change things too much either - e.g. Probes seem risky as there is no quarantee lil'bro has the same idea on when to tenuki...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . a . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , b . . . . , . . . . 6 , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:43 am

You are allowed to read the little brother's comments. Little brothers aren't allowed to consult books, etc. Not sure about big brothers.

Incidentally, did you mean to approve my move, Joaz, or are you still thinking?

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:00 am

I was still thinking.

But, I approve.

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:37 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Comment to follow.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:57 pm

It is gote. I smell three stones coming our way. :lol:

What is he going to use for a follow up?

This?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 6 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 5 . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O 3 X 7 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 8 . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Or this???

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It looks like gote to me.

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:05 pm

Comment to follow.

Move noted, but I want to see the promised comments (if any) before approving anything. So, if no comments are coming, let me know, Splatted.

In general, I appreciate even short comments on future plans - interpreting plans based on just the board is quite errorprone...

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:09 pm

I'm writing the comment now so you can wait if you want.

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:38 pm

Firstly, I decided answering with E10 wasn't a good idea because it felt overconcentrated. It would defend my investment on the side, but there's not much there anyway and it's not very good as an expansion, so I dismissed it.

That left me wanting to do something pro-active to stop black making nice positions with P12/E12. As I said before, the left hand one is bigger for black, so I was tempted to cap it straight away because I think it's good for me if he tries to poke through the elephant eye:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 4 . 3 . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But there's no need for him to do that straight away, and I don't want to be left worrying about that weakness, so I thought it would be better to play the cap on the other side where I have support from P10.

My plan from here depends on how he replies:

If he responds with something defensive on the third or fourth line I'll probably consider view P12 as having done it's job as a reduction and go back and play E12.

If he tenukis I think I may have some strong follow up's, but I'm tempted just to push him low in sente and build influence to support the K17 group and for a reduction of the top left.

If he attaches at P13 I will have to do some serious reading.

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:29 am

Approved.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:37 pm

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:08 am

I'm going to think about this one for a bit.

drmwc · Post by **drmwc** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:38 am

W can improve on one of Joaz's variations

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

3 seems to be an improvement. If B plays the same 4, W moves out. W is reasonably strong and B's group is weak with a lot of aji against the corner.

Or if B changes 4:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . O . X 6 7 . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . 5 X 8 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

B can move out easily, and again W is weak.

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:12 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . c . b . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . g . . . . . . . . . W . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O f . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So these are a few moves I'm thinking about. I'm not sure that white's cap is sente, as I don't see a single move that causes huge problems in the corner, though white can certainly reduce. If it does, then a move like A or B would seem to be best. That said, I'm overcome with an urge to start the fighting already. Move C looks to stabilize the corner more as white can't break in to the corner right away and it puts pressure on the topside group while cutting. White also tenukied black's approach at C12, so black could look to take advantage of this.

I think I am going to play B to induce white C and then take a play on the left side.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:58 am

I disapprove. I think that this move is bigger by more than three stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . B . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Younger brother's move is too small and slow. White could reply like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X O . X . . . X . a . X . O . . . | $$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...which is big and sente, threatening to play 'a'.

The lower left corner has lots of potential for both sides. Whoever moves out first starts developing a moyo.

Life In 19x19

Big Brother Malkovich #5

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