New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game

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gmsa84
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New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game

Post by gmsa84 »

Hi everyone,

I'm new to both Go and this forum. I've been playing for a couple of weeks now, but only a week against humans, and it became clear that playing against bots is not a good idea =). By reviewing my games I see I make lots of mistakes, but some of them I cannot see how I could have done better at. If you could take a few moments to answer my questions regarding the game below, I would really appreciate it :)
.


Mov. 5 = this was obviously not a good choice, he would always be one stone ahead of me there. What would have been better? My guess would be F6, E or F8, or H5 or 6. Would it be better to play more conservative with E8 or H6, or more agressive with F8 or H5? Or none of the above?

Mov. 19 = I thought the right thing to do was to start attacking somewhere else. Was it a good decision?

Mov. 20ff = I thought E3 would be the best answer against D3, but his play at F4 completely threw me off. I still cannot see a way to respond well to it. My best guess so far is G4...

Mov. 32 = I couldn't find a better answer than H3, although it sucked still.

Mov. 40ff - same thing. Couldn't find a better answer yet. If I had established an eye at D6 earlier, I could have played D9 on mov. 43. Maybe not having that eye was the biggest mistake overall.

Mov. 55ff - I could have taken some territory in the lower left corner I guess. Oh well.

Many thanks!


[admin] Moved to appropriate forum. -JB [/admin]
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Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game

Post by amnal »

At move 37 you play C9, but then your entire group dies!

So what's really important to this game is...what could you play instead that would save your stones? Any ideas?
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Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game

Post by gmsa84 »

Well, The only thing I can see is that he killed me there at 38. That move eliminated my possibility of building an eye in the center. I should have played there instead before him. Like I said in my previous post, if I had an eye in the center, I could have played D9 on move 43 and would have two eyes... That's all I can see here. :oops:
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Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game

Post by jts »

gmsa84 wrote:Well, The only thing I can see is that he killed me there at 38. That move eliminated my possibility of building an eye in the center. I should have played there instead before him. Like I said in my previous post, if I had an eye in the center, I could have played D9 on move 43 and would have two eyes... That's all I can see here. :oops:

Is there anywhere you can play on move 37 to get more space to make eyes?
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Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game

Post by gmsa84 »

jts wrote:Is there anywhere you can play on move 37 to get more space to make eyes?


Top right? G8?
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Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game

Post by Bill Spight »

A few comments. :)



Main focus: Look for key points for both sides.
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Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game

Post by gmsa84 »

Bill Spight wrote:A few comments. :)
...
Main focus: Look for key points for both sides.


Thank you very much for the comments. It's still hard for me to see what points are key.

Your move 45 = right, I never think about that, sacrificing a stone to reduce eye space. Thanks!

Your move 49 = would G2 work to create the eye as well? I did G2 later in my game.

---------------------

I just played a game against a 1d player. Well, no points for me on this one. I tried to comment on my own mistakes, but again I'm not sure if my other choices are any better. Many thanks!

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Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game

Post by schawipp »

In the first game - since w did not protect B2 - there is some nasty detail left:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm51 54 at 51
$$--------------------
$$| 3 X X . X O O . . |
$$| O O X . X O . . . |
$$| O X X X X X O . . |
$$| 1 O X , O O . . . |
$$| 2 O X X X O . O O |
$$| . O O X O O O O X |
$$| . . O O X X X X X |
$$| . 5 O X . . . . . |
$$| . O X X X . . . . |
$$---------------------[/go]

After B55 the w side is going to die first. However w could play move 54 on B2 (thereby sacrifying A7/A8/B8) and would still win by a small margin.
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Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game

Post by Bill Spight »

More comments. Thanks to shawipp for alerting me that Black could still have won at move 51. :)



The semeai has some interesting features. :)
Last edited by Bill Spight on Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

If black does save his upper group, then after D6 gets filled, there is some unpleasant aji for white:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc seki
$$--------------------
$$| X X X . X O O 5 . |
$$| . . X . X O 2 1 7 |
$$| X X X X X X O 3 6 |
$$| X O X O O O 4 . 8 |
$$| O O X X X O . O O |
$$| . O O X O O O O X |
$$| . . O O X X X X X |
$$| . O O X . . . . . |
$$| . O X X X . . . . |
$$---------------------[/go]


( White must play 4 to prevent a black throw-in that destroys white's eye at G4 )
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Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game

Post by Bill Spight »

Not to mention this seki. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc seki
$$--------------------
$$| X X X . X O O . . |
$$| . . X . X O . . . |
$$| X X X X X X O . . |
$$| X O X O O O . . . |
$$| O O X X X O . O O |
$$| . O O X O O O O X |
$$| . . O O X X X X X |
$$| . O O X 2 . 4 . 6 |
$$| . O X X X 1 5 3 . |
$$---------------------[/go]
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
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Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game

Post by gmsa84 »

Thanks guys for all the input. Lots of stuff to learn here. :)
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Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game

Post by cyclops »

About the first game.
To get some experience you could try not to fill ko's unless you have to. At move 15 I wouldnt fill the ko but instead I would play B5. If he takes the ko I would cut at G6. Maybe you cannot be sure it will work but it will be fun for sure. Well, better players than me didn't give you this advice; try it at your own risk.
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Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game

Post by billywoods »

gmsa84 wrote:I just played a game against a 1d player. Well, no points for me on this one. I tried to comment on my own mistakes, but again I'm not sure if my other choices are any better. Many thanks!


Comments on a few of your variations:

:b34: : No, after :w31: it is a false eye (and the group is dead) regardless of what black does. (There are two sensible-looking moves for black - J4 and H4 - and both fail. Can you see why? Hint for the sequence played in game: notice that, after :w33:, your stone at J4 is in atari!)

:b38: : Actually, I prefer B2 to all of those moves. As Bill said, try to focus on key points for both sides. B2 is at the 'boundary' of a black group and a white group. Pushing at boundaries gives you territory and extra eyespace. (Notice that white played at B2 soon afterwards.)

:b50: : In both of your variations, you lose the three stones at the top. (In variation 2, white can recapture. This is called a snapback, if you're interested.) More importantly, A7 is an urgent move for both sides - if black gets it, the black group lives; if white gets it, the black group dies.

Keep an eye on your eyespace. ;)
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Re: New user, Go beginner, asking to review his game

Post by gmsa84 »

billywoods wrote::b34: : No, after :w31: it is a false eye (and the group is dead) regardless of what black does. (There are two sensible-looking moves for black - J4 and H4 - and both fail. Can you see why? Hint for the sequence played in game: notice that, after :w33:, your stone at J4 is in atari!)


I have a lot of trouble not seeing diagonals as connections, especially because they work for surrounding. Yes, now I see that Black playing J5 would isolate that group. Still, white could play at H6 and that would end the space for two eyes in there, I guess.

billywoods wrote::b38: : Actually, I prefer B2 to all of those moves. As Bill said, try to focus on key points for both sides. B2 is at the 'boundary' of a black group and a white group. Pushing at boundaries gives you territory and extra eyespace. (Notice that white played at B2 soon afterwards.)


OK, thanks!

billywoods wrote::b50: : In both of your variations, you lose the three stones at the top. (In variation 2, white can recapture. This is called a snapback, if you're interested.) More importantly, A7 is an urgent move for both sides - if black gets it, the black group lives; if white gets it, the black group dies.


Thanks for the hint about A7. :)
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