hyperpape wrote:Consistently playing in 20 seconds is easy (almost impossibly easy--I often end up playing too fast) during main time, but somehow feels like a huge pressure in byo-yomi.
Yes, indeed! Remarkable, isn't it?
Kirby's Study Journal
-
Bill Spight
- Honinbo
- Posts: 10905
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
- Has thanked: 3651 times
- Been thanked: 3373 times
Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Yes, indeed! Remarkable, isn't it?
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
-
EdLee
- Honinbo
- Posts: 8859
- Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
- GD Posts: 312
- Location: Santa Barbara, CA
- Has thanked: 349 times
- Been thanked: 2070 times
-
Kirby
- Honinbo
- Posts: 9553
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: Kirby
- Tygem: 커비라고해
- Has thanked: 1583 times
- Been thanked: 1707 times
Re: Kirby's Study Journal
ez4u wrote:Let's step back one move to the position below. (In the game White jumped down to 4 and Black descended at 10 next.) I think this is the natural timing to considerbelow. Right now 1 is a dual-purpose move, it strengthens White group and in doing so, threatens to invade at 9. Imagine that Black goes ahead and jumps in at
, which you were concerned about. The normal sequence to 8 ends in sente for White and allows the natural follow-up at
. This trade of the upper left for the upper right would leave White well positioned. The initial
Of course White should also think about whether to enclose the bottom around "a" before invading the upper right corner. Even if Black goes ahead and plays at 10, there are still invasion points on the top side.
I like this idea a lot, and it shows that I didn't think about strategy too much. Recently, I watched a video, which was discussing a position:
Black has just invaded at the 3-3. White has an option to block at 'a' or at 'b'. Considering the distance from the marked white stone, I felt inclined to play 'a':
Because I felt that, with this direction, there's more potential around the marked area. However, the lecturer explained that a key point here was that this is gote for white. Black can respond, for example, with something like this:
Just an illustration, but it was to point out that the choice here really made a difference. Comparatively, maybe white has less potential with the other direction, but can get sente, and take control:
(Note: Upon later discussion, this could also be related to the fact that the marked stone is low.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This reminds me a bit of your suggestion here:
Though
is gote, is not, and therefore, defending the top left, which is already relatively stable, is not ideal.It strikes me that
here considers a deeper strategy than simply defending - by defending, I can then feel more at ease to invade at . I really like the flow of this sequence that you have provided.Thank you.
ez4u wrote:...
In the game, I think that invading the top was an overplay. However, by now simply jumping out is a pure defensive move. Would it have been better to simply go back to playis easier to play. The stone at
I think the alternative you've given is certainly better than invading, like I did in the game. Invading is terrible, as my group on the right is already weak.
Still, I really like the sequence you provided earlier. I think it's got a great flow to it.
be immersed
-
Kirby
- Honinbo
- Posts: 9553
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: Kirby
- Tygem: 커비라고해
- Has thanked: 1583 times
- Been thanked: 1707 times
Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Bill Spight wrote:My first impression from the 30 min. graph is that you run into difficulty around move 125. That suggests to me that you have not planned adequately. Remember that often the answer to the question, "What do I do in this position?" is "Don't get into that position."
This sounds reasonable. From the graph, I don't see a strong indicator to select move 100 (rather than another number before 125), but doing this would likely help with the position around move 125
And if Jowa has already given this advice, perhaps it's a good idea, considering the data seems to support it.Bill Spight wrote:I don't know that you are playing too quickly. If you go into byo-yomi around move 146, then you have made around 73 moves in 30 min., or around 25 sec. per move. That does not seem too quick to me. (Or am I drawing the wrong conclusion from the graph?
I believe you are reading the graph correctly
BillSpight wrote:How about setting aside 5 min. for assessment and planning at around move 100? And while we are at it, 5 min. for move 50 and 5 min. for move 30? (Following Jowa's advice.
I like this idea.
BillSpight wrote:BTW, what kinds of positions cause you to take the most time? That may suggest what to study.
To be honest, I sometimes feel sick of my attitude. I'm not exactly sure how to classify what I view to be a "difficult situation", but I get into a difficult situation, and often feel, "Why did I let myself get into this position?"...
But more than this, what I'm really sick of is when I find myself playing so nonchalantly. I know that a position could have further thought, but I feel, "Well, I've been in a situation like this before. I can play this way. It'll probably be OK. Maybe there's a way to stop what I'm playing here, but my opponent probably won't find it."
The poisonous aspect of this attitude is... that it's sometimes correct. Sometimes my opponent doesn't respond in the most severe way, and I get away with it. As a result, I get an attitude that feels like, "There's a significant chance that if I don't exert much effort at all, I'll be in fine shape. I could exert a lot more effort to figure out the *right* solution, but there's a low probability that this will make a difference."
I hate this attitude. But I have it often.
be immersed
-
Kirby
- Honinbo
- Posts: 9553
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: Kirby
- Tygem: 커비라고해
- Has thanked: 1583 times
- Been thanked: 1707 times
Announcement
So... This isn't working.
Just like last week, I went to the club last night. It was a lot of fun, but I played poorly. In one game in particular, there were too points where I made *very* simple mistakes, which were the result of not reading ahead by about two moves. It was very depressing.
I've played at least a game a day most days this month. It's not a terribly long time, but it's not terribly short, either. I told myself that I didn't have much time for tsumego or for studying pro games or for studying joseki. I'd just play games and review them. I usually have about 2 hours a night to spend on go, so this seemed like a reasonable amount of time to accomplish this.
But my play from yesterday's club game speaks to me that just playing these games, and going through and reviewing them is not enough. I've practiced go problems in the past, and I really feel that this was more effective for my play than playing games with no study at all.
Conclusion
Effective immediately, I play to take a more balanced approach to studying this game. I don't think that it's correct to stop playing altogether - I've done that in the past. Rather, I will play about 1-2 games a week and post them here. Since I only have about 2 hours a day, I will spend this time on the other days entirely devoted to two things:
* Go problems (I've tried this for studying in the past)
* Joseki (I've not tried this in the past)
Maybe I'll spend about an hour for each topic. I will continue to use this journal as a medium through which to post information about this on a daily basis. And, according to plan, I will post games as I have been between 1 and 2 times a week.
I've enjoyed just playing and reviewing games for the last month a lot, but from yesterday's club practice - it's just not enough. I have to spend time getting back into *learning* the game. And I hope that a more balanced approach can help me to achieve this.
Just like last week, I went to the club last night. It was a lot of fun, but I played poorly. In one game in particular, there were too points where I made *very* simple mistakes, which were the result of not reading ahead by about two moves. It was very depressing.
I've played at least a game a day most days this month. It's not a terribly long time, but it's not terribly short, either. I told myself that I didn't have much time for tsumego or for studying pro games or for studying joseki. I'd just play games and review them. I usually have about 2 hours a night to spend on go, so this seemed like a reasonable amount of time to accomplish this.
But my play from yesterday's club game speaks to me that just playing these games, and going through and reviewing them is not enough. I've practiced go problems in the past, and I really feel that this was more effective for my play than playing games with no study at all.
Conclusion
Effective immediately, I play to take a more balanced approach to studying this game. I don't think that it's correct to stop playing altogether - I've done that in the past. Rather, I will play about 1-2 games a week and post them here. Since I only have about 2 hours a day, I will spend this time on the other days entirely devoted to two things:
* Go problems (I've tried this for studying in the past)
* Joseki (I've not tried this in the past)
Maybe I'll spend about an hour for each topic. I will continue to use this journal as a medium through which to post information about this on a daily basis. And, according to plan, I will post games as I have been between 1 and 2 times a week.
I've enjoyed just playing and reviewing games for the last month a lot, but from yesterday's club practice - it's just not enough. I have to spend time getting back into *learning* the game. And I hope that a more balanced approach can help me to achieve this.
be immersed
-
yoyoma
- Lives in gote
- Posts: 653
- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:45 pm
- GD Posts: 0
- Location: Austin, Texas, USA
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 213 times
Re: Kirby's Study Journal
This is probably cherry picking, but the two things I focused on from your post were:
I don't see how your new plan is addressing this issue.
Kirby wrote:not reading ahead by about two moves.
Kirby wrote:I have to spend time getting back into *learning* the game.
I don't see how your new plan is addressing this issue.
-
Kirby
- Honinbo
- Posts: 9553
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: Kirby
- Tygem: 커비라고해
- Has thanked: 1583 times
- Been thanked: 1707 times
Re: Kirby's Study Journal
yoyoma wrote:This is probably cherry picking, but the two things I focused on from your post were:
...
I don't see how your new plan is addressing this issue.
Hmm, I'm not sure if I get your point, so could you clarify?
The way I figured:
Kirby wrote:not reading ahead by about two moves.
> This indicates that I need to do more go problems. If I'm not able to see an obvious move that's two moves ahead, then as ez4u mentioned earlier, maybe it's time for me to hit some go problems.
Kirby wrote:I have to spend time getting back into *learning* the game.
> I've experienced doing go problems before, and I've experienced playing games. But I've never really studied joseki in depth. I thought that joseki could contribute to learning more about the game, since if I can try to understand *why* things are joseki, then maybe I can understand more about go.
That's where my new plan came from. It's entirely possible that I haven't thought of the most efficient way to do this, and if you have other ideas, they are by all means welcome.
be immersed
-
billywoods
- Lives in gote
- Posts: 460
- Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:12 pm
- Rank: 3 kyu
- GD Posts: 0
- Universal go server handle: billywoods
- Has thanked: 149 times
- Been thanked: 101 times
Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Kirby wrote:If I'm not able to see an obvious move that's two moves ahead
Go problems teach you to read deeply along a small number of branches locally until you find something that works, which is very useful, but is a solution to a very specific problem. In particular, it doesn't sound like your current problem.
Kirby wrote:joseki
Do you know about this YouTube channel? (I found this a long time ago and I love the videos I've seen, but I never hear anyone talk about it.)
-
yoyoma
- Lives in gote
- Posts: 653
- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:45 pm
- GD Posts: 0
- Location: Austin, Texas, USA
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 213 times
Re: Kirby's Study Journal
I thought you could have read the 2 moves easily, but you simply didn't.
So you already have the ability to read those problems/situations, but you simply didn't. It's not a reading ability issue, it's something else.
In one game in particular, there were too points where I made *very* simple mistakes, which were the result of not reading ahead by about two moves.
So you already have the ability to read those problems/situations, but you simply didn't. It's not a reading ability issue, it's something else.
-
Kirby
- Honinbo
- Posts: 9553
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: Kirby
- Tygem: 커비라고해
- Has thanked: 1583 times
- Been thanked: 1707 times
Re: Kirby's Study Journal
billywoods wrote:Kirby wrote:If I'm not able to see an obvious move that's two moves ahead
Go problems teach you to read deeply along a small number of branches locally until you find something that works, which is very useful, but is a solution to a very specific problem. In particular, it doesn't sound like your current problem.Kirby wrote:joseki
Do you know about this YouTube channel? (I found this a long time ago and I love the videos I've seen, but I never hear anyone talk about it.)
Good point, billywoods. And thanks for the youtube link - I had not seen it.
be immersed
-
Kirby
- Honinbo
- Posts: 9553
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: Kirby
- Tygem: 커비라고해
- Has thanked: 1583 times
- Been thanked: 1707 times
Re: Kirby's Study Journal
yoyoma wrote:So you already have the ability to read those problems/situations, but you simply didn't. It's not a reading ability issue, it's something else.
Do you know what it is?
be immersed
-
yoyoma
- Lives in gote
- Posts: 653
- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:45 pm
- GD Posts: 0
- Location: Austin, Texas, USA
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 213 times
Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Kirby wrote:yoyoma wrote:So you already have the ability to read those problems/situations, but you simply didn't. It's not a reading ability issue, it's something else.
Do you know what it is?
Haha I'm trying to be all zen-like and get you to answer it yourself.
-
Kirby
- Honinbo
- Posts: 9553
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: Kirby
- Tygem: 커비라고해
- Has thanked: 1583 times
- Been thanked: 1707 times
Re: Kirby's Study Journal
yoyoma wrote:Kirby wrote:yoyoma wrote:So you already have the ability to read those problems/situations, but you simply didn't. It's not a reading ability issue, it's something else.
Do you know what it is?
Haha I'm trying to be all zen-like and get you to answer it yourself.
I'll have to think about that... Thanks.
be immersed
-
daal
- Oza
- Posts: 2508
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:30 am
- GD Posts: 0
- Has thanked: 1304 times
- Been thanked: 1128 times
Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Kirby wrote:
Because I felt that, with this direction, there's more potential around the marked area. However, the lecturer explained that a key point here was that this is gote for white. Black can respond, for example, with something like this:
Just an illustration, but it was to point out that the choice here really made a difference. Comparatively, maybe white has less potential with the other direction, but can get sente, and take control:
Admit it, you just want an excuse to get back to your old ways of not playing gote.
Patience, grasshopper.
-
Kirby
- Honinbo
- Posts: 9553
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: Kirby
- Tygem: 커비라고해
- Has thanked: 1583 times
- Been thanked: 1707 times
Re: Kirby's Study Journal
daal wrote:...
Admit it, you just want an excuse to get back to your old ways of not playing gote.
OK, I admit it. But maybe more than that, I'm more and more confused by this game.
be immersed