dumbrope's struggles on Tygem

Create a study plan, track your progress and hold yourself accountable.
Post Reply
dumbrope
Dies with sente
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:13 pm
Rank: AGA 5k
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 14 times

dumbrope's struggles on Tygem

Post by dumbrope »

Continuing some game analysis from another thread since that was starting to look like a study journal to me. Here is a recent game.



In particular, I have a lot of doubts about what to do in the following positions:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Move 41, how should white play?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X . . . O . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O O O X X . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . O . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 75, how to get ahead (or whether to?)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X . . . O O O . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . , O X X O O O X X . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O X . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . O O O X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O O . X . . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X X . X O O X X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Of course, any feedback is appreciated.
Top
amnal
Lives in gote
Posts: 589
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:42 am
Rank: 2 dan
GD Posts: 0
Been thanked: 114 times

Re: dumbrope's struggles on Tygem

Post by amnal »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 75, how to get ahead (or whether to?)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O X X X . . . O O O . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . , O X X O O O X X . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O X . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . c . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . b . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . O O O X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O O . X . . X . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X X . X O O X X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I don't think getting ahead is white's big worry here, this area of the board doesn't seem hugely interesting and white doesn't want to push from behind.

I think the bottom area is far more important. As white I'd be very worried that black has several important moves/cuts that split white into multiple potentially weak groups. Since black is very strong everywhere, this seems hard to handle.

For that reason, I think a white reinforcing move is suitable. Dunno what's best though. a makes one group very safe but is quite slow, and leaves the other vulnerable to forcing moves or potentially an attack. b is a nice shape but maybe is also slow, white may have to endure annoying forcing moves/cutting on the left. c leaves things the least settled, but makes a nice active shape and is a point black would like to play if he wanted to a really big moyo expanding move - especially if he could get that in sente because white hadn't protected his cuts.

So...I dunno what's best, but I think white should definitely consider this kind of plan. I'd probably personally play c, because it feels like white can't fix all his problems in one move so he may as well play on a larger scale that tries to make it difficult for any single black move to be too troublesome. On the other hand, this kind of move might turn out to be bad if black still can find an attack or cut that I underrate.

Edit: Actually b isn't as important as I thought because of course black can't easily cut directly there. It's still a nice shape point, but even slower since it isn't directly necessary.
Top
dumbrope
Dies with sente
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:13 pm
Rank: AGA 5k
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: dumbrope's struggles on Tygem

Post by dumbrope »

amnal wrote:I don't think getting ahead is white's big worry here, this area of the board doesn't seem hugely interesting and white doesn't want to push from behind.

I think the bottom area is far more important. As white I'd be very worried that black has several important moves/cuts that split white into multiple potentially weak groups. Since black is very strong everywhere, this seems hard to handle.
You're right. That would be playing in a area where both sides have strong groups. I took my eyes off weaknesses.
Top
dumbrope
Dies with sente
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:13 pm
Rank: AGA 5k
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: dumbrope's struggles on Tygem

Post by dumbrope »

This game is short and features a brutal fight and large exchange early on. Looking for improved ideas in fighting and tactics...



In particular, the fight starts after the following sequence which is common on Tygem:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 7 to 10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . 4 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The normally incorrect kick at :b1: is made interesting by the immediate pincer at :b3:
Top
User avatar
Redundant
Lives in sente
Posts: 924
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:00 pm
Rank: lazy
GD Posts: 0
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Location: Pittsburgh
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 103 times

Re: dumbrope's struggles on Tygem

Post by Redundant »

Consider this sequence for after the kick.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 7 to 10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . 6 4 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 8 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O O X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This way black is completely sealed in the corner.
Top
snorri
Lives in sente
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:15 am
GD Posts: 846
Has thanked: 252 times
Been thanked: 251 times

Re: dumbrope's struggles on Tygem

Post by snorri »

Redundant wrote:Consider this sequence for after the kick.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 7 to 10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . 6 4 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 8 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O O X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This way black is completely sealed in the corner.
Nice sequence. (Although not possible in this game as black didn't play :b5: in your 1st diagram.)
Top
User avatar
Redundant
Lives in sente
Posts: 924
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:00 pm
Rank: lazy
GD Posts: 0
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Location: Pittsburgh
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 103 times

Re: dumbrope's struggles on Tygem

Post by Redundant »

snorri wrote:
Nice sequence. (Although not possible in this game as black didn't play :b5: in your 1st diagram.)
Huh. I guess I wasn't being the most observant of people, but this black move showed up in one of dumbrope's variations.
Top
Post Reply

Return to “Study Journals”