#218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

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quietimes
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Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Post by quietimes »

So, a plant for distraction. Cool. Go long so I can walk away from this if needed. Vs Tigerjaw backing out to the left
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm39
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O X . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


vs

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm39
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O X . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . O . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm39
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O X . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . O . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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ikkyu
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Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Post by ikkyu »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm39
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . O . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I want to see what white's response will be.
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tj86430
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Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Post by tj86430 »

@ikkyu:
ikkyu wrote:I want to see what white's response will be.

Do you have plans for different responses, or are you just curious?
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Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Post by ikkyu »

tj86430 wrote:@ikkyu:
ikkyu wrote:I want to see what white's response will be.

Do you have plans for different responses, or are you just curious?


Short answer: a little bit of both.

Longer answer: I read out a few scenarios based on different responses. At the same time, I have next to no experience in invading, so I felt this would be a good opportunity to learn. I'm somewhat confident that I can win this game even without a successful invasion. However, I'm a lot less interested in winning than I am in learning. Since I don't have a lot of time or opportunity to play online or in person, I'll take any lessons I can get. So far, this game has offered me a lot of things to learn and I have no doubt that this will continue.

I know this is not what you're asking, but I wanted to put it out there for anyone who's interested: I initially got in to playing Go because I had a child and all of a sudden, I didn't have the time or money to pursue my first love: martial arts. My on-again-off-again play and study is due to my frustrations with the game itself as well as other things coming up in my life. One thing I've become determined to do is to look at playing Go similarly to how I practice martial arts. When I care more about winning than learning, I get stressed out, frustrated, and I have a hard time enjoying it. But when I look at everything as a chance to learn, these effects are much less. As such, I care much more about enjoying myself than winning. It's an attitude that I've been criticized for by people at the club I was going to, which is part of the reason I don't go there anymore (the bigger issue is time and travel).
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tj86430
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Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Post by tj86430 »

@ikkyu:
ikkyu wrote:Short answer: a little bit of both.

Longer answer: I read out a few scenarios based on different responses. At the same time, I have next to no experience in invading, so I felt this would be a good opportunity to learn. I'm somewhat confident that I can win this game even without a successful invasion. However, I'm a lot less interested in winning than I am in learning. Since I don't have a lot of time or opportunity to play online or in person, I'll take any lessons I can get. So far, this game has offered me a lot of things to learn and I have no doubt that this will continue.

I know this is not what you're asking, but I wanted to put it out there for anyone who's interested: I initially got in to playing Go because I had a child and all of a sudden, I didn't have the time or money to pursue my first love: martial arts. My on-again-off-again play and study is due to my frustrations with the game itself as well as other things coming up in my life. One thing I've become determined to do is to look at playing Go similarly to how I practice martial arts. When I care more about winning than learning, I get stressed out, frustrated, and I have a hard time enjoying it. But when I look at everything as a chance to learn, these effects are much less. As such, I care much more about enjoying myself than winning. It's an attitude that I've been criticized for by people at the club I was going to, which is part of the reason I don't go there anymore (the bigger issue is time and travel).

(One of) the reason(s) I'm asking is this: I encourage you to post your plans, if you have them. The reason is twofold: If you post them, someone can and may comment them, and you may learn from the comments after the game. Also, when you (are about to) post them you may - as I often do - discover something about them you hadn't thought of before. Both of these (may) help you in your - rightly so - most important goal: learning.

(It is also fine to play a move just to see what happens, without having any plans. At least for me it is, others may have other opinions on this. One may learn also that way.)
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Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Post by ikkyu »

tj86430 wrote:@ikkyu:
(One of) the reason(s) I'm asking is this: I encourage you to post your plans, if you have them. The reason is twofold: If you post them, someone can and may comment them, and you may learn from the comments after the game. Also, when you (are about to) post them you may - as I often do - discover something about them you hadn't thought of before. Both of these (may) help you in your - rightly so - most important goal: learning.

(It is also fine to play a move just to see what happens, without having any plans. At least for me it is, others may have other opinions on this. One may learn also that way.)


I totally get that and I agree with you. The unfortunate thing is that I'm doing this largely in 5 minute increments during breaks at work or spare moments at home (I don't have a whole lot of either). As such, there sometimes isn't time to go into detail on my thoughts, though I imagine I can do so a little this evening since my wife is going out.

As for may latest move, I'm thinking of it as more a probe than anything else. I'm also curious if I can get any aji out of it. I'm banging my head against the wall a little because if I had played something like H14 before white played H16, I might not have to worry about the bottom right at all.
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quietimes
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Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Post by quietimes »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm39
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . 6 . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So, guess I wasn't threatening enough. Lock down left side, run black up with the right side and cap. Probably going to lose the corner however. Grrrr. oh well. Can't say I didn't see it coming. Did I pursue the little sorte on the top middle too soon?


To Quietimes
This is just so I don't feel left out. :lol:
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Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Post by ikkyu »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm39
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
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$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


A question for white: kill my stone on the bottom right and suffer a loss on the bottom left. Protect the bottom left and I'll probably be able to live in the bottom right. Which would you prefer?
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quietimes
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Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Post by quietimes »

Ok, a tenuki here and tenuki there, here a t, there a t, everywhere a tenuki. My bet would be that black is hoping to drive down to the bottom with a connection and split my groups permanently. A practical subterfuge to perhaps have me lose priority interest in the bottom right. Maybe I'm over thinking things too.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O X . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O X . . O . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, having said that, I don't feel the need to respond to this threat as expected when I can jump out to an attack on my own.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm39
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . O . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Undoubtedly he's going to cut, however I have a little barrel over him. Does he save the corner or drive down the wall. That particular area is small if I can have the left corner live.

who knows. We will see.

Other thought upon alternatives
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . 3 . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . 4 . 2 . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . O . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O 7 . . O . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O 7 . . O . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm39
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 , . O 7 . . O . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Post by ikkyu »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm39
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . O X . . O . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . O . X . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's a gamble, but I'm willing to give it a shot. I do think, however, I shouldn't have played so loosely earlier. But live and learn. I've got a nuclear tesuji in queue, just in case.
Last edited by ikkyu on Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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billywoods
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Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Post by billywoods »

Black really must answer in the lower left corner. As white I would happily tenuki :b47: to play D4 now - black will lose more in the bottom left than white will in the bottom right. I don't really know what's happening with F4 and G4, but that area looks big too.
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quietimes
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Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Post by quietimes »

Never play go when in a really ugly mood. So, distraction upon distraction. Going to make a stupid gut instinct small move. I may, as I expected, lose this corner however at the moment, all reads seem to go to a simlilar point.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm47
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . O X . . O . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . O . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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billywoods
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Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Post by billywoods »

quietimes wrote:I may, as I expected, lose this corner however at the moment, all reads seem to go to a simlilar point.
Yeah, I reckon black's alive once he connects. But that's fine. Play B3 and black's lower left corner probably dies. Q17 is also very big.
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ikkyu
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Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Post by ikkyu »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm47
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 . O X . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . O . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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quietimes
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Re: #218 Quietimes vs Ikkyu

Post by quietimes »

i am likely over reaching here. The instincts say put the 3-3 in Atari.i think the bigger move is to play along the bottom and get territory

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm47
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X O . O . X . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . O . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 . O X . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O 4 . . . . . . . O . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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