Big Brother Malkovich #5

illluck
Lives in sente
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:07 am
Rank: OGS 2d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Has thanked: 736 times
Been thanked: 239 times

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by illluck »

Something tells me that this is definitely getting changed. It makes the group strong rather than heavy.
User avatar
schultz
Lives in gote
Posts: 505
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:31 pm
GD Posts: 0
Location: Montana
Has thanked: 80 times
Been thanked: 62 times

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by schultz »

illluck wrote:
Something tells me that this is definitely getting changed. It makes the group strong rather than heavy.

I can hear Ed now... "Broken shape"
KGS: schultz [?].
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

I'm not happy with this. I do like the idea of making white heavy, but I don't think we have time for it. White can ignore the peep, and hane underneath like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |[/go]


If we then proceed with the peep, white takes our corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 5 7 1 . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . 8 X 3 X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . T 6 4 2 X X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |[/go]

...and because of the unpleasant aji of C15, it is almost sente when white does it.

So let us assume that we crosscut:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 2 3 X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 X X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |[/go]

...white forces with 3, we extend with 4, then white patches with 5.

Now there are several lines, all of which look bad for us:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 4 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 2 3 X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O 7 . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 X X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 1 2 3 X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O 9 . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 X X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |[/go]

So...

I do not approve.

There are at least two moves that I regard as better:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . B . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 B . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |[/go]


It depends on how strong the crosscut at :w1: turns out to be. This make take some thinking.

...more later...
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 :b9: :w6:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . B . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . C X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White had several lines in which he could have caused chaos in our territory. This forestalls them all. We can still connect underneath. If white prevents that, he makes himself heavier. He may make himself stronger, but he makes our H stones stronger.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
Splatted
Lives in sente
Posts: 734
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:41 pm
Rank: Washed up never was
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: Splatted
Has thanked: 681 times
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Splatted »

I don't know what to do. :cry:

My plan for this variation was to play F17 to cut black's two stones off, but now I realise it doesn't work because black can create a shortage of liberties with F15:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 :b9: :w6:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . B 1 6 X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 5 X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Actually that doesn't looks so bad if I continue like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 :b9: :w6:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 C O X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm going for it. :rambo:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 :b9: :w6:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X 5 . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
TIM82
Lives with ko
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:24 pm
Rank: EGF 1 dan
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: TIM82
Online playing schedule: sometimes KGS
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by TIM82 »

Disapproved.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 :b9: :w9:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


schulz: Knowing little brother's plans - have you already calculated in the correction for next move? And how well do you think he's going to figure out (divine) the plan you have in mind with what he has discussed so far?

Yes, calculated that correction into my plan of course. However, I'm always trying to make as few corrections as possible. Each move I don't have to correct is a good thing - opponents often make moves you don't predict (like black's last move), forcing one to change plans anyway, and also less corrections puts the correction points pressure to other team...

Hope that was good enough answer, I was not sure I understood the point of the question? To Splatted's latest plan then:

Splatted: My plan for this variation was to play F17 to cut black's two stones off, but now I realise it doesn't work because black can create a shortage of liberties with F15:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 :b9: :w6:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . B 1 6 X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 5 X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Actually that doesn't looks so bad if I continue like this:...


Black will actually play 2 at 4 above, and then connect, and it looks bad for us: bad shape, black can push us around in sente (a-d) and get solid corner + influence, and then invade left side next. 5 at 6 below is bad for us too. So, I have to disapprove.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 :b9: :w6:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . c a b . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . B 1 d X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O 5 9 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 2 3 X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now then, what to do? My earlier plan has a fault too, namely black can play 41 at A below, perhaps exchanging B-C first:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 :b9: :w6:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . 9 7 c b X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 6 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 8 . a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After my chosen move (and answers I can see), either the plan I had in mind or Splatted's plan will work.
TIM82
Lives with ko
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:24 pm
Rank: EGF 1 dan
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: TIM82
Online playing schedule: sometimes KGS
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by TIM82 »

Oh, and one more thing. I think Skydyr's last move had to be corrected, but I can't for the life of me understand why Joaz chose E17 instead of F17 :scratch: I'm very happy though, since I think it was an error, and would have played F17 myself :D
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

I regret to say that the new move is at least 3 points better. :grumpy:
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
Splatted
Lives in sente
Posts: 734
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:41 pm
Rank: Washed up never was
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: Splatted
Has thanked: 681 times
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Splatted »

I think I can see where I went wrong here. I was too focused on stopping black from connecting underneath that I didn't even consider what would happen if he played on the outside instead, but black G13 would have been terrible for white.
skydyr
Oza
Posts: 2495
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:06 am
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Location: DC
Has thanked: 156 times
Been thanked: 436 times

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by skydyr »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 :b9: :w9:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . 3 X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 1 X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O 2 O 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, here's my thought. Strengthen then cut.
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

This seems too heavy. :scratch:
If it were up to me, would hane at J14 immediately. But doing so costs 3 points. I don't think that my opposing younger brother will find the optimal way to exploit heaviness, so opposing elder brother will have to step in at least once, maybe twice - for 3 to 6 points. That is a net swing of 6 to 9 points by just sitting here and letting younger brother's move stand. :-?
So...


I approve

But with reservations.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
Splatted
Lives in sente
Posts: 734
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:41 pm
Rank: Washed up never was
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: Splatted
Has thanked: 681 times
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Splatted »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 :b9: :w9:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O 7 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't think he'll cut at F14 since it seems like I can't cut him even if I connect, which means the local position is basically settled. I'm not sure if we got a good result or not, but I do think it's better than what I was planning before Tim's corrections, particularly the first one.
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Right now, most of the strength of our game comes from the fact that white has a weak group in the upper left, where our stones outnumber theirs. If these stones get loose with no compensation accruing to us, the game is back to even...at best.

Younger brother talked about playing the bamboo joint at'a'. It is strong, but very slow. He further mentioned that he was thinking of the hane at 'c'. This only happens if opposing elder brother lets an equally slow move be played at 'b'. I suspect that he will not, and will spend 3 points if necessary to play 'c' himself.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . a X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . b B B . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O c . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



We could treat 'a' and 'b' as miai, and declare our two stones to be connected, and proceed directly to 'c' without the slow bamboo joint. The problem with this is that the cutting stone at 'c' is vulnerable to a ladder. If we spend a move to preserve the cutting stone with 3, white has the vicious play at 4:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 4 . . . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X 2 O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...which continues like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 5 fills at H16
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . 2 X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O 1 O 3 . . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 X X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and this...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc 8 at 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X 3 O X 5 O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O X X X . . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

..and this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 3 at H18
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 X O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X O O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O X X X 2 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So cutting immediately is no good.

Maybe we can extend and cut.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . d . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . a X . O . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . . . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . b X X 1 O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O 2 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . X . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now, 'a' and 'b' do look like honest miai. Although if they take 'a', we will have to play 'b' and thereby concede 'd' to them.

This position is hard to evaluate.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
TIM82
Lives with ko
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:24 pm
Rank: EGF 1 dan
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: TIM82
Online playing schedule: sometimes KGS
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by TIM82 »

thinking, and travelling next day or so, will be back after that.

I personally would intuitively connect at F15 instead of G14, but is it necessary to correct? Seems like G14 may create a worthless floating group for us, but have to confirm.
Splatted
Lives in sente
Posts: 734
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:41 pm
Rank: Washed up never was
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: Splatted
Has thanked: 681 times
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: Big Brother Malkovich #5

Post by Splatted »

Interesting... I thought my move was forced but it seems both Tim and Joaz have other ideas.
Post Reply