KOTH Rules and Questions

[jts]

A few questions:

1. Does +f count as a win for the challenger, or just a loss for the forfeited? (If a forfeit is as good as a win, challengers have no reason to be polite about checking the challenge time in advance.)
2. Why prevent people from rejiggering their schedules, so long as they keep the same number of hours open?
3. Why are we handling handicap differently for different matches? I don't discern a purpose. Maybe mob matches at full handi, and then -2, -4, and -6 reduced handi at higher levels?

I don't think anyone can commit to be available at 24 hours notice for even as many as ten hours a week on a consistent basis, if you interpret "available" literally. But if you get into the spirit of things, and treat your posted hours as a sort of bluff, bearing in mind you might get demoted if you're called on it, it won't be too bad.

[Joaz Banbeck]

...
have the first assassin to win a game become the first king.

I'll make an exception, just for you: If you get up to the assassin level, I'll play you at a substantially reduced handicap. I think that we should play at 4 or 5 stones. I'll make it TWO stones. It should be an easy win for you.

...
Please consider changing it to 30 or so. People with real jobs (doesn't include me at the moment) can't reasonably post a 50-hour schedule.

I know that.

...
I don't think anyone can commit to be available at 24 hours notice for even as many as ten hours a week on a consistent basis, if you interpret "available" literally. But if you get into the spirit of things, and treat your posted hours as a sort of bluff, bearing in mind you might get demoted if you're called on it, it won't be too bad.

Part of scheduling is bluffing. If you read the notes, you may have seen the part that says this was deliberately designed to allow gamesmanship.

In other words, there is a meta-game here. The 'play' of the meta-game is scheduling and challenging and choosing time controls. One of the possibilities is bluffing about your schedule. This give weaker players - weaker at go, at least - a fighting chance.

[Joaz Banbeck]

... Why prevent people from rejiggering their schedules, so long as they keep the same number of hours open? ...

Because I don't want someone using a difficult schedule to lock himself in as king. If you get to be king, you could look at the schedules of the assassins on the level below you and infer what would be inconvenient hours for them. As various assassins come and go, the king could keep modifying his schedule to impede them.

There is an advantage to having a big, convenient schedule at the bottom ( Someone will play you if you have a convenient schedule. Playing and losing costs nothing at the bottom, so playing as often as possible is a good strategy. )
The is also an advantage to having a small, inconvenient schedule at the top.

Optimizing a schedule for top and bottom is a balancing act. This is one of the 'plays' of the meta-game.

[Joaz Banbeck]

I'll clarify some of the ideas in the previous posts: there is a meta-game. I have tried to make the 'contours' of the hill complicated, so that no single strategy is optimal.

I can think of several strategies that might work. It may be practical to try the slow approach up, with a tight schedule, hoping that someone will challenge you when you are the only other player on their level. If you eventually get to be king, you might hold it for a long time.

The fast path up with a very loose schedule may work also. Being able to play at any time may mean that you may pass competitors - if you win. Even if you lose, you may be able to start again and still pass. The disadvantage to this is that once you become king, assassinating you is easy.

Another possible strategy is to wait at the bottom until you think that people will be busy - at Congress or during Christmas holidays. Then challenge them to a game when you know they have something else to do.

There is at least one other strategy that confers a guaranteed jump of one level - IF a player is perceptive and has been around for a while. I won't say what it is, but I will say that it can be used right now.

[ez4u]

[admin]
After the demise of the last two L19 tournaments, I have devised a new one, with a different structure. It will be faster, less serious, and require less of an investment of time.
See viewtopic.php?f=64&t=8646
[/admin]

Great that you took the initiative. Thanks!

The basic idea of king of the hill is very simple: there is a hill with several levels. Only one person can occupy the top level - that is the king. Everybody who participates starts at the bottom. To move up, you must beat someone at a game of go.
...

So far so good. It really looks like it has the possibility to overcome the issues that we've had with previous tournaments.

Part of scheduling is bluffing. If you read the notes, you may have seen the part that says this was deliberately designed to allow gamesmanship.

In other words, there is a meta-game here. The 'play' of the meta-game is scheduling and challenging and choosing time controls. One of the possibilities is bluffing about your schedule...

Hmmm... Not my cup of tea I'm afraid. If you decide to go back to a Go tournament, give me a buzz. Until then, good luck and have fun!

[vpopovic]

I apologize, I thought this was a go tournament, not trickery and bluffing competition.
I'll delete my post in registration thread.

Cheers

[Shaddy]

I really want to play, but my schedule's pretty strange and irregular for the next few weeks, so it'd be impossible..

[leichtloeslich]

I am making myself king.

Well I didn't vote for you!

And I didn't want to be a negative Nancy about this, but ...

Not my cup of tea I'm afraid. If you decide to go back to a Go tournament, give me a buzz.

I thought this was a go tournament, not trickery and bluffing competition.

this.


I agree that there should be some way to insure people who participate are sufficiently available for games, but your idea might take it too far.

edit: maybe you could replace the controversial rule with something like "anyone above mob level has to play at least one game per week, regardless of schedule, or he'll be dropped to the mob".

[daal]

edit: maybe you could replace the controversial rule with something like "anyone above mob level has to play at least one game per week, regardless of schedule, or he'll be dropped to the mob".

I'd be satisfied with one game per month minimum.

[often]

by the way, i have no idea how to set 7.5 komi on KGS.

[OtakuViking]

Come on guys we need more activity. What's up with the results not updating and people not challenging?

[Unusedname]

We are extreme meta gaming. If you're the only assassin you can never rank up to contender. Mwuhahaha.

[OtakuViking]

You've had a long time to update the status of the 'participants', yet there's no activity from you on this forum Joaz Banbeck. What on earth are you doing creating a tournament and then leaving it to rot. The system does not work if you cannot update the status of the participants. You've been active on other parts of the board throughout the month, yet you've completely neglected this area. What on earth is going on bro? Have you simply developed a blind spot regarding this sub-forum or is there something fishy going on?

In any case, I believe I speak for everyone when I say that this is not satisfactory. I will not be a part of this charade any longer.

[wineandgolover]

Have you simply developed a blind spot regarding this sub-forum or is there something fishy going on?

In any case, I believe I speak for everyone when I say that this is not satisfactory. I will not be a part of this charade any longer.

"Something fishy?" "Charade?" Cool old-school lingo bro, kinda like a B&W-era private detective. Next, you can call him a cad, and a lout, and inquire who he's in cahoots with.

How about we declare KOTH over, mostly due to lack of interest, and declare you winner, with a final record of 1-0?

(And yes, I'm just teasing you, and am following this whole thing with some bemusement.)

I suspect Joaz had a good idea, and is just a little frustrated by the general lack of interest. Nothing, err, nefarious. I've been there and sympathise.

[kex]

I have a question: Why is King of the Hill a "General topic" on this forum?

To me, this seems to fit within the "Tournaments" section.