#225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

skydyr
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Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Post by skydyr »

The Intrepid wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O . O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This move is meant to gain thickness in sente. Next, I'll play on the top side.


I'm not sure I see why this is sente?
hyperpape
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Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Post by hyperpape »

skydyr wrote:
The Intrepid wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O 2 O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . a . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This move is meant to gain thickness in sente. Next, I'll play on the top side.


I'm not sure I see why this is sente?


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . 7 O 3 O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . 5 4 6 . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O 3 O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . 6 5 4 7 9 O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I guess the second could be playable for White, but I think I'd respond.
Bill Spight
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Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Post by Bill Spight »

Note: Previous post ( viewtopic.php?p=146895#p146895 ) unhidden. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , X . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w26: shows incredible confidence or lack of awareness.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , X . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


A center play may be objectively better, but I think that this play gives White more chances to catch up. White can get a base on the side plus access to the center.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Kirby
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Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Post by Kirby »

Bill Spight wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , b . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . a . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If the choice is between "a" and "b" there is really no contest, is there? The next two diagrams illustrate my heuristic for comparison. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Option 1
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , B . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . W . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Option 2
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , W . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . B . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Edit: Well, maybe it's not so obvious, eh? ;)

Later edit: Unhidden. BTW, Black got both.


So I guess the conclusion is that you think I should have played this way:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Option 2
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , W . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Thanks for the tip! :tmbup:
be immersed
The Intrepid
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Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Post by The Intrepid »

Whoa, stuff's getting unhidden. Perhaps it's a bit early for this. Who knows, maybe Kirby was thinking he was doing fine, but after the reveal thinks he needs to resort to desperate measures ... like tenuki-ing from the top-right! :shock: Talk of desperate measures! I can fight a ko to kill that corner, I think, which is worth some 20 points. Is White's last move really worth more than that? :scratch: I doubt it. Time for some :study:.
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
skydyr
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Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Post by skydyr »

hyperpape wrote:
skydyr wrote:
The Intrepid wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O 2 O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . a . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This move is meant to gain thickness in sente. Next, I'll play on the top side.


I'm not sure I see why this is sente?


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . 7 O 3 O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . 5 4 6 . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O 3 O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . 6 5 4 7 9 O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I guess the second could be playable for White, but I think I'd respond.

That's about what I figured would happen as well, but I thought the second was fine for white, as the lower right corner is still open, and white would get a move plus a follow up on the top side.
The Intrepid
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Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Post by The Intrepid »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm33
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . X X O O . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , X . . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . 1 . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I thought about playing in the corner, but what if Kirby does not respond there? Then, I'd be left with 20 points of corner territory. What the hell am I supposed to do with that? This is Takemiya style, yo. Moyo or death!

A possible continuation:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . X X O O . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , X . . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 4 8 . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X 6 X 1 3 7 X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X . 0 . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . 9 . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . X X O O . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , X . . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X X X O O O X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X 1 X . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . O . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The result is that Black sacrificed several points to obtain greater thickness in the center.

I do not believe that Black should go for the following:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . X X O O . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , X . . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . 4 6 . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X 5 1 2 . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X 3 . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White stones in the center would fall under severe attack, but Black's four stones are also floating. I believe White would be able to use this fact to save his three stones, possibly destroying much of Black's moyo. In the very least, playing this way would carry unnecessary risk for Black, given that the alternative is perfectly fine.
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
Bill Spight
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Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Post by Bill Spight »

Kirby wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , b . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . a . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If the choice is between "a" and "b" there is really no contest, is there? The next two diagrams illustrate my heuristic for comparison. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Option 1
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , B . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . W . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Option 2
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , W . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . B . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Edit: Well, maybe it's not so obvious, eh? ;)

Later edit: Unhidden. BTW, Black got both.


So I guess the conclusion is that you think I should have played this way:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Option 2
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , W . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Thanks for the tip! :tmbup:


No, that is not the conclusion. ;) I said, if the question were which of those plays to make. Actually, I lean towards an approach to the top left corner. :)
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Post by The Intrepid »

Bill Spight wrote:Actually, I lean towards an approach to the top left corner. :)
Bill, do you mean an approach toward the top-right corner?
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
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Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Post by Bill Spight »

The Intrepid wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:Actually, I lean towards an approach to the top left corner. :)
Bill, do you mean an approach toward the top-right corner?


Oh, right! :oops:
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm33
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . .|
$$ |. . . O X . . . . . . . . X X O O . .|
$$ |. . O X . X . . . , X . . . . X X . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . 2 . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . X . X . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O O O . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Maybe it's immature, but I don't want to play this game anymore. It's clear I've made mistakes and that I'm losing. With high probability, I will lose this game.

I thought seriously about resigning. Then I stopped coming to this site for awhile to see if it was just a temporary thing. I still don't want to finish this game.

But, given that it's early, I ultimately felt it would be rude of me to resign so early, especially to The Intrepid.

So I'm going to jump in right now. I'm already losing and in debt.

I hope this ends the game quickly.

I really am a bad player...
be immersed
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Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Post by The Intrepid »

OK, here we go! :) The deciding moment of the Takemiya-style game has arrived. Black built a huge moyo, and White was forced to invade it. If the invasion succeeds and much of the moyo vanishes, White will be ahead. If Black kills the invasion or saves much of the moyo, Black will be in the lead.

I need to think here for a bit. :study:
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
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Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Post by Shaddy »

Kirby:

I always have the same feeling in malkovich games.
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Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Post by MJK »

Shaddy wrote:Kirby:

I always have the same feeling in malkovich games.

Yea, I know what you are saying. If you know who I am? :roll:
Wait, please.
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Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style

Post by bayu »

Kirby:
It's too early to resign. The game might already be over, but that's not the point. People will still find it interesting to follow and to comment. And for intrepid, I think that turning a moyo into profit is part of what he calls Takemiya style (besides, he is thinking hard). So please, take it as a teaching game and let him and the observers enjoy the show, till the big fat kill (or till the endgame, who knows). There are kyus 'round here. And the popularity of the thread speaks for itself. We like you. And continuing the game is appreciated.

Kirby wrote:I really am a bad player...


I don't think that this attitude is helpful. Show some spirit, sensei! :)
If something sank it might be a treasure. And 2kyu advice is not necessarily Dan repertoire..
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