Yes, it is in your basics. For example,ParadoxGo wrote:Oh yeah, I'm almost positive it's my mistakes and not the fuseki.
But I need to figure out how to work this fuseki better if I want to not make the mistakes I'm making.
My Fuseki
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Re:
Maybe this is semantics, but attaching underneath isn't really a fundamental or a basic concept. Something likeEdLee wrote:Yes, it is in your basics. For example,ParadoxGo wrote:Oh yeah, I'm almost positive it's my mistakes and not the fuseki.
But I need to figure out how to work this fuseki better if I want to not make the mistakes I'm making.in game 1 at R3 (3-3) instead.
The principle here that is worth treating as basic is that a little bit of corner access (i.e., the difference between q-3 and r-3) can mean a huge amount in terms of points and the strength or weakness of each group. Once you accept that principle, it's obvious that playing q3 is a big loss if you could have gotten away with r3; and you'll learn that r3 is often sound in this sort of corner situation by reading and playing it out.
1st game: Hard to say there's anything wrong with your fuseki specifically. To me it looks like your fuseki instincts are developing as they should be, but you have trouble following through in fighting. At move 15, the fight looks promising for you; at 22, it looks like you've given up a huge amount. But I think that was your reading of the brawl, not your grasp of the fuseki.
2nd game: You don't seem to be thinking of your fuseki moves in terms of threats and follow-ups, or in terms of longer term aims for the middle game. For example, I'm not sure if I would play
3rd game:
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Re: Re:
I think EdLee's comment is pretty basic. I wouldn't say attaching underneath is the "only move," necessarily, but playing R3 instead of Q3 is a basic concept.jts wrote:Maybe this is semantics, but attaching underneath isn't really a fundamental or a basic concept.EdLee wrote:Yes, it is in your basics. For example,in game 1 at R3 (3-3) instead.
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Re: My Fuseki
In the first game, you'd be so much better off if you had saved your one stone at move
. Notice how after that, white's three stones would be completely surrounded by black with very little room to make life. Even if they did manage to survive, it would be at the cost of giving black huge outside influence.
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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Re: Re:
I don't think it makes sense to call it a basic concept because elsewhere on the board the attachment under, while usually possible, is often incorrect (either in terms of points or implications for fighting). Unless we are using "basic" to mean "something that an 8k can learn", in which case, sure.judicata wrote:I think EdLee's comment is pretty basic. I wouldn't say attaching underneath is the "only move," necessarily, but playing R3 instead of Q3 is a basic concept.jts wrote:Maybe this is semantics, but attaching underneath isn't really a fundamental or a basic concept.EdLee wrote:Yes, it is in your basics. For example,in game 1 at R3 (3-3) instead.
More generally, if you have to use coordinates to state your "basic concept", it probably isn't that basic, imho. I might make an exception for some rule about making eyes in the corner (since 6 stones to live in the corner, 8 stones to live against the side, and 10 to live in the center really is a basic concept).
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Re: My Fuseki
This is a good opening for you if your opponents keep playing moves like
in your third example. 
However, in this case, I would not treat the upper right and lower right corners as miai so rigidly, and would prefer to block at 'a' rather than play
as in the game. Is there a reason you rejected that play?
Just curious, but what is your planned response if white simply makes a sanrensei with
?
I also propose another move for white that you might need to prepare for:
And here:
And here:
Finally:
That should keep you busy for a bit. Good luck!
However, in this case, I would not treat the upper right and lower right corners as miai so rigidly, and would prefer to block at 'a' rather than play
Just curious, but what is your planned response if white simply makes a sanrensei with
I also propose another move for white that you might need to prepare for:
And here:
And here:
Finally:
That should keep you busy for a bit. Good luck!
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Re: My Fuseki
Or so your opponents to date think. This is why it is so hard to develop your own opening. If you can't test it against stronger players, it just becomes a matter of a bag tricks against players of your own level. OTOH, if you do test it against stronger players, you may find that tactical mistakes overwhelm what you are trying to understand about the opening.ParadoxGo wrote:Plus, white never approaches the bottom right, because that's too dangerous.
When I was about your level, I tried out this opening. The position of
I also did not win much with it, but it is not so much because white found a killer refutation so much as that I never spent the required amount of games and analysis by stronger players to develop it. Also, as EdLee mentions, most games at this level are simply not decided at this point anyway, so it's very hard to draw conclusions from the few bits of data associated with win/loss records. Much later I discovered that there were some high dans on Tygem that played this way. I felt vindicated, but still did not continue to use this. It was hard to find professional examples to compare to my own games, so I concluded that the well-beaten path held more promise than the path not taken. I could be completely and utterly wrong and there are days I regret not going further down this rabbit hole.
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Re: My Fuseki
Thanks for all the responses everybody! Wow. There was a lot of helpful information posted.
I do think a major issue of mine is misreading fights and situations. I can usually set myself up pretty well, but then fail during the actual battle.
As far as variations for white's response to this, I think I will need to think of different responses to different approaches. I was using my miai too rigidly, as I can see now.
I do think a major issue of mine is misreading fights and situations. I can usually set myself up pretty well, but then fail during the actual battle.
As far as variations for white's response to this, I think I will need to think of different responses to different approaches. I was using my miai too rigidly, as I can see now.
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Yes. It's in your basics.ParadoxGo wrote:I do think a major issue of mine is misreading fights and situations.
Exactly. This is why your first 3 opening moves (or even the first 10 or 20) don't matter so much,ParadoxGo wrote:I can usually set myself up pretty well, but then fail during the actual battle.
unless you make some bad moves (like opening at 1-1, or 2nd line too early, etc.),
or like
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Re:
What do you suggest I do? I read Sensei's Library quite often and practice on Go Problems all the time. But I continue to mess up basics like the ones in my game.EdLee wrote:Yes. It's in your basics.ParadoxGo wrote:I do think a major issue of mine is misreading fights and situations.Exactly. This is why your first 3 opening moves (or even the first 10 or 20) don't matter so much,ParadoxGo wrote:I can usually set myself up pretty well, but then fail during the actual battle.
unless you make some bad moves (like opening at 1-1, or 2nd line too early, etc.),
or likein game 1 -- it's mostly in your basics.
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Re: My Fuseki
It's par for the course you will get a lot of non sense approach moves that aren't in the book for while, until you figure out how to punish them, at which point you will learn about whole new sets of problems. I'm curious what is the strategy, build 3-4 5-4 shimaris or moyos? I would think mini-Chinese formations from the 3-4 would interesting.EdLee wrote:Yes. It's in your basics.ParadoxGo wrote:I do think a major issue of mine is misreading fights and situations.Exactly. This is why your first 3 opening moves (or even the first 10 or 20) don't matter so much,ParadoxGo wrote:I can usually set myself up pretty well, but then fail during the actual battle.
unless you make some bad moves (like opening at 1-1, or 2nd line too early, etc.),
or likein game 1 -- it's mostly in your basics.
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Re: My Fuseki
Well, one thing to think about is time use. In the first and third game you're using about 6 seconds per move, in the second, what, 12-15 seconds per move? Some people swear by blitz, but I would say (i) choose time limits appropriate to your playing speed to improve your focus, and (ii) experiment with playing more slowly. Personally, I can't imagine how I would improve if I didn't think about my moves before I played them.
Take game 1,
- this seems pretty bad to me, abandoning cutting stones in a way that also strands two other stones in a valuable area. Should you always save your cutting stones? No, definitely not. Is it possible that n4 leads to disaster? Sure - I've only read out a couple lines. Should you play
and then immediately abandon it? Definitely not; this seems inconsistent.
seems slightly slow. It seems that you might be unaware that these sorts of endgame moves are more meaningful when they threaten a weak group's base, which is a basic concept, but probably I'm reading too much into it... you only took three seconds on the move.
is an interesting defensive move that doesn't actually threaten to do anything. But again, you connect in three seconds.
Do you see what I mean? It's hard for me to assess what your various moves mean if they were mostly played reflexively. If you took two minutes to think before connecting with
, I would say, "Aha, there is some basic concept here about when to save stones that Paradox is missing - if only we can figure out what that is, he'll make huge strides!"
Take game 1,
Do you see what I mean? It's hard for me to assess what your various moves mean if they were mostly played reflexively. If you took two minutes to think before connecting with
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Re: My Fuseki
It's weird, because looking at the game now, I can clearly see whyjts wrote:Well, one thing to think about is time use. In the first and third game you're using about 6 seconds per move, in the second, what, 12-15 seconds per move? Some people swear by blitz, but I would say (i) choose time limits appropriate to your playing speed to improve your focus, and (ii) experiment with playing more slowly. Personally, I can't imagine how I would improve if I didn't think about my moves before I played them.
Take game 1,- this seems pretty bad to me, abandoning cutting stones in a way that also strands two other stones in a valuable area. Should you always save your cutting stones? No, definitely not. Is it possible that n4 leads to disaster? Sure - I've only read out a couple lines. Should you play
and then immediately abandon it? Definitely not; this seems inconsistent.
seems slightly slow. It seems that you might be unaware that these sorts of endgame moves are more meaningful when they threaten a weak group's base, which is a basic concept, but probably I'm reading too much into it... you only took three seconds on the move.
is an interesting defensive move that doesn't actually threaten to do anything. But again, you connect in three seconds.
Do you see what I mean? It's hard for me to assess what your various moves mean if they were mostly played reflexively. If you took two minutes to think before connecting with, I would say, "Aha, there is some basic concept here about when to save stones that Paradox is missing - if only we can figure out what that is, he'll make huge strides!"
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Re: My Fuseki
Was this a question for me? I don't completely understand.SmoothOper wrote:It's par for the course you will get a lot of non sense approach moves that aren't in the book for while, until you figure out how to punish them, at which point you will learn about whole new sets of problems. I'm curious what is the strategy, build 3-4 5-4 shimaris or moyos? I would think mini-Chinese formations from the 3-4 would interesting.EdLee wrote:Yes. It's in your basics.ParadoxGo wrote:I do think a major issue of mine is misreading fights and situations.Exactly. This is why your first 3 opening moves (or even the first 10 or 20) don't matter so much,ParadoxGo wrote:I can usually set myself up pretty well, but then fail during the actual battle.
unless you make some bad moves (like opening at 1-1, or 2nd line too early, etc.),
or likein game 1 -- it's mostly in your basics.
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Re: My Fuseki
I'm not a fan of saying the first [five] moves don't matter much.
The fuseki seems like playing an extension before a shimari, which is conventionally a mistake.
Of course, more detail is probably in order.
I think the extension (q10) is just a moyo building move, and your two corner stones don't want a moyo yet. The bottom right is free for the taking (no points there) and the top right can be flattened. You say you can make the other shimari, but white has already spent moves spoiling/limiting a moyo on the right, so then spending more moves building a moyo on the right is less good.
I think sanrensei and Chinese are better. What are some reasons for that? I think it's to do with white's options for 6.
The fuseki seems like playing an extension before a shimari, which is conventionally a mistake.
Of course, more detail is probably in order.
I think the extension (q10) is just a moyo building move, and your two corner stones don't want a moyo yet. The bottom right is free for the taking (no points there) and the top right can be flattened. You say you can make the other shimari, but white has already spent moves spoiling/limiting a moyo on the right, so then spending more moves building a moyo on the right is less good.
I think sanrensei and Chinese are better. What are some reasons for that? I think it's to do with white's options for 6.