Low Chinese Variant - What's the Reason?

moyoaji · Post by **moyoaji** » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:05 am

So I saw this in a couple of pro games on Go4Go.net and liked the way it looked. I've played it in a few games and so far I think it works better in a number of areas the typical Low Chinese is weak. However, I'm no pro and I don't know what the reason behind the different move is, so if someone can explain the reason(s) to me I could know if I actually should be using this move or if I'm misusing it. Here is an example of a pro using this fuseki if you want to see it: http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/37207

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Low Chinese Variant $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

For those that don't know, the normal Low Chinese is played at 'a' for the third move. This is one of the most common professional fuseki nowadays. The High Chinese at 'b' is sometimes also played. However, this move is 1 closer to the bottom than the typical Low Chinese and I've only seen it in a couple of pro games - unlike the dozens of pro games I've looked at with the Low Chinese.

Here are two reason I think it might be better:

1. An approach from the outside will lead to a 5-space extension for black, instead of a 4 space extension. It also makes a white invasion of the corner less of a concern because the outside thickness black gets is farther from

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Top side approach $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , C . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

2. Obviously this move more tightly pincers any approach move to the 3-4 stone, but if approached from the outside it has a much more solid long-knight extension instead of a 3-space low extension like in the normal Low Chinese.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Bottom approach $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . 6 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The downside, however, is that an approach on the inside of the framework is better for white. First, black cannot kick at 'a' and leave white overconcentrated. White can now get a 3-space extension like he wants. Second, a 1-space low pincer at 'b' does not create a 2-space extension at the same time. Third, if black pulls back to 'c', white is actually able to jump out to the start-point at 'd' from his approach without shoulder hitting a black stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Inside approach $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . d . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

What do you guys think of this opening for black? I'm not sure it's amazingly better than the Low Chinese, but I personally really like it.

EDIT: I found another example of this fuseki being used in a professional game between Kim Junghyun 4p and Park Jungwhan 9p. I wanted to note this here for archival purposes. It looks like Park Jungwhan decided to reduce the potential of the bottom by playing a corner enclosure for move 6. And this game as well between Tang Weixing 3p and Tan Xiao 7p. Tan Xiao responds with a classic bottom star point as you would against the standard Low Chinese.

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:50 am

I've played the high variant of this quite a lot. Very territorial, but it doesn't make the opening that painful for white with good play.

daal · Post by **daal** » Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:52 am

moyoaji wrote:
The downside, however, is that an approach on the inside of the framework is better for white. First, black cannot kick at 'a' and leave white overconcentrated. White can now get a 3-space extension like he wants. Second, a 1-space low pincer at 'b' does not create a 2-space extension at the same time. Third, if black pulls back to 'c', white is actually able to jump out to the start-point at 'd' from his approach without shoulder hitting a black stone.

$$ Inside approach
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . d . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Inside approach $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . d . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Your reasoning against the move is essentially the same as what Kato Masao says about it in his book about the Chinese opening. The move places too much emphasis on the bottom corner and: "Faced with a white approach move at 2 (

in your diagram), black is at a loss for a suitable continuation."

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:21 am

Black can kick like this if white approaches on the inside.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 3 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c b . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In Kato Masao's day, I don't think this move would've been played because it lets white have the extension to 'a'. Nowadays however the more common white move is to hold back at 'b' or 'c'. If white goes all the way to 'a', black can invade at 'd' and play as below.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c 'a' and 'b' are miai next. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O a . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O b . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It should be noted however that this exact sequence occurred recently in a Korean game. Can you guess the next move white played? http://gogameguru.com/go-commentary-che ... ea-tengen/

moyoaji · Post by **moyoaji** » Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:48 am

Dusk Eagle wrote:Black can kick like this if white approaches on the inside.

In Kato Masao's day, I don't think this move would've been played because it lets white have the extension to 'a'. Nowadays however the more common white move is to hold back at 'b' or 'c'. If white goes all the way to 'a', black can invade at 'd' and play as below.

It should be noted however that this exact sequence occurred recently in a Korean game. Can you guess the next move white played? http://gogameguru.com/go-commentary-che ... ea-tengen/

I see. In the game I gave between Liao Xingwen and Tao Xinran I assumed black wanted white to settle there and white was playing to make a base and get out by playing a 2-space jump to the 4th line. I figured that black intended to harass white and seal him into that side while making points on the top and bottom and white wanted to move his group to the center. I didn't realize black could actually unsettle white so easily after a 3-space extension.

Life In 19x19

Low Chinese Variant - What's the Reason?

Low Chinese Variant - What's the Reason?

Re: Low Chinese Variant - What's the Reason?

Re: Low Chinese Variant - What's the Reason?

Re: Low Chinese Variant - What's the Reason?

Re: Low Chinese Variant - What's the Reason?