The new OGS

[hyperpape]

Stock, downloaded chrome from the app store.

I believe that Chrome doesn't use nitro, as Apple doesn't let it run in 3rd party apps because of security concerns. Chrome uses a distinct JS engine that's also provided by Apple.

I don't know about the architecture of iOS browsers, but in general there are a lot of moving parts, and just because two browsers are using Webkit, it doesn't follow that there aren't big differences in how they handle a given web app.

[RBerenguel]

You can install nitro (which is Safari's JIT javascript engine) in jailbroken iPads. As far as I know the only moving parts Chrome has that Safari does not is the web routing, http processing and similar, not-so-critical stuff, but the renderer is Webkit, and the JS engine is either the same as safari or a worse one. I just checked and Chrome quits the same as Safari does.

Quote from AllthingsD from a while back:

But, under the hood, Chrome for iOS isn’t Chrome. It’s using Apple’s browsing engine. What’s worse, it isn’t even the fast Nitro JavaScript engine used by Safari, but rather Apple’s older engine, known as UIWebView.

Of course it may be that the crashing is due to a nitro bug and works in UIWebView, but...

[hyperpape]

Bottom line: it doesn't crash for me and lets me play moves.

Edit: I was in a sleep induced fog this morning. Should have reiterated that I see errors concerning the connection. I don't know if that's lack of websockets, or what.

[RBerenguel]

I'll try again after a reboot, crossing fingers.

[drmwc]

I mainly played on OGS using the android client, which now no longer seems to work. So I will probably give up on OGS entirely if a client doens't meander along soon, and give DGS a go.

Interestingly (to me if no-one else), my rank decreased as a result of the merger with no games being completed. I was just under 7 dan (with a record of 12-0-0.) I'm now 5 dan (again with a record of 12-0-0.).

My graph shows me as being 2700, though, but my grade shows as 2500. My graph also has an unexplained down bit in July, although I didn't lose any games in July.

[anoek]

I mainly played on OGS using the android client, which now no longer seems to work. So I will probably give up on OGS entirely if a client doens't meander along soon, and give DGS a go.

Interestingly (to me if no-one else), my rank decreased as a result of the merger with no games being completed. I was just under 7 dan (with a record of 12-0-0.) I'm now 5 dan (again with a record of 12-0-0.).

My graph shows me as being 2700, though, but my geade shows as 2500. My graph also has an unexplained down bit in July, although I didn't lose any games in July.

Hey drmwc - the rating "change" was because you had accounts on both services and they were merged. We realize in hindsight we should have taken the highest values, but what we did instead was just keep the nova values. I've fixed your record, and we'll be fixing all other affected users as well.

[Bantari]

explain why you think it (=seek graph) is a good feature

It gives a graphical representation of time settings vs. rank.
Instead of having to manually parse a list of text entries (or even have to "hover over" an offer, as you have to on KGS), it gives an easy and immediate visualization of the two most important features we care about when we search for a game:
1) how long will the game last (approx)
2) how strong will our opponent be

Btw, seek graphs are not an invention of nova, they have been used on chess servers for ages. I think the only reason most go servers don't have them is because these servers have "automatch".

With a seek graph, automatch is the equivalent of marking a certain square (min_rank - max_rank and min_time - max_time) in the seek graph and joining the first game offer to pop up in that square.

Imho it is very hard to argue against the convenience of this form of visual representation, and doing so might make people wonder whether you just want to be argumentatitve for the sake of being argumentative.

To be honest, while I see the advantages of game graphs, I don't like them myself.
My reason is that it treats games too anonymously. Sure, if what you need is to just play *a* game in a specific range, its great... for those who use automatch and this is all they care about. Well, I see reasons to dislike the graphs:

• How about looking for a specific game? For example - I want to see which high dans are playing? In a list - I have it at a glance. On a graph - to find anything like that is demented.

• Or how about looking for a game of a specific player? On a graph this can be a nightmare to find. And when there are many games being offered, even impossible with dots overlapping each other.

• How do you handle multiple offers of exactly the same type? They have to overlap - which means again, this is good only for those who don't care *which* of those challenges they accept.

• A list is a tool more universal while a graph is a tool which is faster, sacrificing speed for control. For those of us who prefer speed, graphs might be better. For those who actually care what they do, lists are the way to go.

I think ultimately, the best solution would be to tab it - with the list being the upper tab (or make it configurable) so newcomers from other servers are not scared by looking at something unfamiliar.

[yoyoma]

http://online-go.com/game/showOpen

Below the seek graph is a table style list, they already have both styles.

[leichtloeslich]

Bantari, it seems to me that you have never been to nova and have not even clicked the link I have provided, which, even without having an account or being logged in, will show you the seek graph and answer basically *all* the questions you have raised.
Here's the link again: http://online-go.com/game/showOpen

And when there are many games being offered, even impossible with dots overlapping each other. [...] How do you handle multiple offers of exactly the same type?

That is obviously impementation dependent. On nova they're represented by a sightly thicker dot and when you hover over that dot a list of the games which that dot represents appears besides your cursor.
It's quite nicely done, actually, you should check it out.

how about looking for a game of a specific player?

As was pointed out, for tasks like this there is a list-form of the challenges below the graph. Also, if you want to play a specific person, you should just challenge him/her.
(Maybe you didn't think of this because this is impossible in KGS.)

I want to see which high dans are playing

Seek graphs display game offers, not games being played, although one could imagine an "observe graph". Let's assume there was such a thing as an "observe graph". If you want to see high dans playing, just check the dots which are high up in the graph, which represent high dan games.
This is equivalent to a list which is being sorted top to bottom by rank, only the graph also gives you a sorting left to right of the time settings.

A list is a tool more universal while a graph is a tool which is faster, sacrificing speed for control. For those of us who prefer speed, graphs might be better. For those who actually care what they do, lists are the way to go.

That is plain wrong. A graph encodes more information about the games than a list does.
A graph is 2 dimensional while a list is 1 dimensional. There is no information about the game offers which you cannot obtain from the graph, since hovering over a dot will give you a detailed (but concise) view of the actual game offer (offers) which that dot represents.


Again, it appears as though you have written your post without even bothering to check out nova and so people might think you (just as DrStraw) are trying to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

Also, even though I'm repeating myself, seek graphs aren't this hip new thing only young cool people like. As I have said before, chess servers had them for ages, or rather, chess server clients had them for ages, since the chess servers I'm referring to are telnet servers, which are obviously not very capable of displaying graphics.
(I know this is completely irrelevant, but I feel like the "old guys" are fighting against a concept alien to them which they percieve as "new", when really that concept has been around since basically forever.)

edit: added commas to make the first sentence readable.

[hyperpape]

[*] How do you handle multiple offers of exactly the same type? They have to overlap - which means again, this is good only for those who don't care *which* of those challenges they accept.

Not completely right, I think. You could map a number of offers to a region around a single point--some kind of tiling effect. The other alternative would be to pop out multiple identical offers on hover.

But hey, choice is cool. I don't know that I prefer graphs either.

[Boidhre]

There's a list of currently running games: http://online-go.com/observeGames

Just choose the list option instead of seeing the top 5 ranked games going on right now.




If you go to a player's profile you can scroll down to see all their active games: http://online-go.com/user/view/8592/Uberdude

It's not a list but surely the latest board position is (for stronger players) handier anyway.

[lobotommy]

Just a quick report about old iOS devices compatibility.

Works fine on iPhone4 with iOS 7.0.3 (Chrome, Safari, iCabMobile).

On iPad1 (iOS 5.1.1, jailbroken with Nitro engine installed) it shows you games and board, but submitting a move is bugged and it does not work (Chrome, Safari, iCabMobile, Puffin browser).

But I tried a browser called iSwifter which in real is a full desktop Firefox (run on some Linux probably) just streamed to iOS, and OGS/Nova worked with no problems this time (I would be really surprised if it didn't want to work that way).

I even tried to be double logged in - I made my moves on ipad via iSwifter while on iphone I got real time updates, so it looks like new ogs is fully operational for me now.

[RBerenguel]

Just a quick report about old iOS devices compatibility.

Works fine on iPhone4 with iOS 7.0.3 (Chrome, Safari, iCabMobile).

On iPad1 (iOS 5.1.1, jailbroken with Nitro engine installed) it shows you games and board, but submitting a move is bugged and it does not work (Chrome, Safari, iCabMobile, Puffin browser).

But I tried a browser called iSwifter which in real is a full desktop Firefox (run on some Linux probably) just streamed to iOS, and OGS/Nova worked with no problems this time (I would be really surprised if it didn't want to work that way).

I even tried to be double logged in - I made my moves on ipad via iSwifter while on iphone I got real time updates, so it looks like new ogs is fully operational for me now.

I'd never use a remote browser like this... Even if I'm no security freak, I'd be concerned. Sooner or later I'll upgrade my iPad (SmartGo Kifu no longer works in iOS <6)

[Boidhre]

I'd never use a remote browser like this... Even if I'm no security freak, I'd be concerned. Sooner or later I'll upgrade my iPad (SmartGo Kifu no longer works in iOS <6)

Use it just for Nova/OGS. Use a throwaway email address and unique password. Zero issues.

[RBerenguel]

There are still network strain issues, even if security isn't a concern. Even if they are compressing the data, doing what is almost an X redirect through what I expect is a secured connection is a sh*tload of bandwidth just for playing a browser game.

I wonder if the Nova/OGS guys could just implement a GTP layer via http(s) so anyone could write a barebones client with a little patience.