#227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

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moyoaji
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by moyoaji »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have won back potential on the bottom, my corner is out, and both sides are still weak so I can make a running fight of this.

I feel that :b47: was a mistake. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see what my opponent does.

As for the score, I feel black has about 12 points on the right now, but I also have gained in my lower right corner. I'm not great at counting, but I'd say I have about 12 points there as well.

So the score is relatively unchanged... I would go with about 32.5 to 16 (I'll give black 4 points in the center).

If someone good at counting wants to count this and make a comment I would love to compare my thoughts now at the end of this game to see what I'm missing.

If black tenukis from here I feel the bottom, doing a double approach, and invading the 3-3 are all pretty big. Let's see what black finds important and then I'll do something else.
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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hailthorn011
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . 9 . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This should be interesting.
Slava Ukraini!
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moyoaji
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by moyoaji »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Black: 0 White: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . 9 0 O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


First blood!

I don't think forcing me to take this way was the best way to use the aji, but I suppose if black wants to just live on the bottom this stone may help? It isn't good shape though...
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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hailthorn011
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Black: 0 White: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . 9 0 O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . B . . X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Obviously my right group isn't alive yet, but I'm not concerned about it right now. The bottom looks like a good place to go.
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Bill Spight
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by Bill Spight »

Edit: Unhidden.

hailthorn011 wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Black: 0 White: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . 9 0 O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . B . . X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Obviously my right group isn't alive yet, but I'm not concerned about it right now. The bottom looks like a good place to go.


Each side has a weak group next to the other one. Hey! No problem. :roll:
Last edited by Bill Spight on Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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moyoaji
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by moyoaji »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Black: 0 White: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . 1 . . X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Never make 2 weak groups. This idea has been hammered in my head over and over again. I still make the mistake often, but I think my opponent made it here. He had two weak groups - the bottom and the right. I only had one on the right. He couldn't help both...

Since black chose to save his bottom instead of protecting his weak group I believe I can now connect back my weak group to my corner and, if black chooses to challenge this, can win his stones. I looked at a number of variations and I think I've found answers to the ways black can challenge me. If black tenukis again I will play O8 for a 40 point corner with outside influence. How could I not be happy with that? I think black will read this out and save his 3 stones, which is fine by me.

He will then have a weak floating group on the board. While my approach stone on the bottom is looking outnumbered it isn't in a terrible spot - not to mention that if it gets any strength I can counter attack the bottom group. Those 3 stones are far from safe.
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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hailthorn011
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Black: 0 White: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . 1 . . X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This could be dangerous.
Slava Ukraini!
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moyoaji
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by moyoaji »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Black: 0 White: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . 1 . . X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And so it begins. I trust my reading. Let's see if hailthorn read better than I did. This fight is worth a lot.
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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hailthorn011
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Black: 0 White: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . 1 . . X O . 5 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, I guess I'll be playing for life from here on. I actually haven't read through this as much as I probably should have. So I'm basically taking a chance here. I saw :w4: coming for awhile. My first instinct was to simply play at O7, but I may need more liberties first. Obviously going there will be an eventuality. :D
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moyoaji
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by moyoaji »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Black: 0 White: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . X O O 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . 1 . . X O . 5 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Again my opponent surprises me with a move. However, I don't think this one is very good. It doesn't seem to do anything. In fact, it seems to cost him a valuable liberty. I look forward to seeing the comment on this and/or why my cutting it off is a mistake.
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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hailthorn011
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Black: 0 White: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . X O O 6 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . 1 . . X O . 5 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So far this is what I read out with my last move. I knew this move was coming. But now I need to make sure that things go correctly from here on. This is definitely going to be quite tricky.
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moyoaji
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by moyoaji »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Black: 0 White: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . X O O 6 7 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . 1 . . X O . 5 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I suspect black is attempting to start a ko here. He can have it. I will take first. I do think he has a threat. I will need to evaluate my threat options carefully because black can make this ko even bigger by cutting. Then I couldn't lose the ko. I may simply take, respond to black's threat, and then back off from the ko. However, if I win I don't see how black can survive here.

EDIT: On further analysis I don't think this ko is winnable by black. I will have plenty of local threats if he attempts to seal me in after taking the ko. He doesn't really have any local threats after the push to try to get out. I can just back off after he burns that and then I win the ko or get my group out. I will give this to my opponent, however - I did not expect him to play like this. In all the variations I looked at this was not one of them.
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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imaponuki
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by imaponuki »

To moyoaji:
What ko are you talking about and how would you play it?
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moyoaji
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by moyoaji »

imaponuki wrote:To moyoaji:
What ko are you talking about and how would you play it?

I expect black's next move to be here. So this is the ko.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Black: 0 White: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X C 9 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . X O O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

There is a proverb that says you should always take a ko once. So I will do just that.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Black: 0 White: 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X 0 9 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . X O O O C O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now the way my opponent has been playing I am not sure exactly where he will go, but he does have a ko threat to kill my top left corner and that is pretty important. More important than this ko at least, so I'll respond to that and then back off. The reason is that taking the ko is good for me is that black has burned an important ko threat when I was willing to back off in the first place.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Black: 1 White: 2
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 1 X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X C X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . X O O O 3 O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X O . X O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The ko here is not meaningless. If I win it means I don't have to worry about my 3 stones in the corner living and I don't have to worry about my group having to run for life in the center. However, if I kill black's group here then both of those are moot points. The ko does make killing his group slightly more difficult as I may have to take the ko to remove a liberty, but it is also nice to have an option to win the ko to link my groups back. I don't think this is that bad for me.

The threats I am referring to for myself come if/when black seals my white group in.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Black: 1 White: 2
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 1 X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 9 O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 O X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . X O O O 3 O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X O . X O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The cut at 'a' gives me a few ko threats as it threatens to take those stones and save my group - a group that he will likely have to kill to have his stones survive. I also expect black to descend at 'b' at some point, threatening to cut off my corner. However, I have the ko to fall back on and I think I can kill his 2 stones by playing at 'c'.
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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Re: #227 moyoaji vs hailthorn

Post by hailthorn011 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Black: 0 White: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . O O . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X 9 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . X O O 6 7 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . 1 . . X O . 5 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This was part of my plan. But I'm starting to wonder if this was a bad idea... :mrgreen:
Slava Ukraini!
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