#228 VincentCB vs Kirby

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Loons
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Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Post by Loons »

Natural and obvious, perhaps, but I don't like it. Overconcentrated with the marked white, weak with respect to every local black stone, peeping a bamboo joint, leaving white too weak to fight (I think).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , 5 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Struggling for an alternative, I get:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Black hasn't finished living, white's group is free from attack.
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
Kirby
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Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . 7 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's kind of complicated if he cuts:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X 1 X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But if I play a move like this, I don't deserve to play go:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . B . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move lacks fighting spirit, puts no real pressure on white, and has only a single purpose of jumping into the center.

It's possible that, in the optimal sequence, black will lose out with the move I played. But I can't play like a chicken. At least, I need to make it an interesting situation that I can learn from. If I lose the game because of it, at least I'll have put forth an interesting kifu.
be immersed
VincentCB
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Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Post by VincentCB »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Thanks to my terrible move at c12, I'm already in trouble :-?
As painful as it is, I will push from behind once, and then jump in front. My shape is thin, but I don't have time to fix it. If black gets to play at g12, everything gets out of control:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 White makes good shape and loses the game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I wanted to play a keima at g12 directly, but this is what happens:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm27 Black cuts - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 9 7 5 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 0 O O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . 1 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm37 Black cuts - 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 4 2 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
And I still have a cut at 'a' to fix.
Kirby
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Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X 9 . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The ladder is good for me, so he can't cut right now:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X 1 X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . C . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



However, this aji means, if I don't further help the group in some way, he can play around the marked area in sente, which would not be cool.

Therefore, the plan is to find a way to protect this cut while pressuring his group. In the worst case, I play extension on bottom first, but i don't feel it's the biggest part of the board, yet.

Either way, in contrast to other moves in this game, I didn't think too much about this one. It puts pressure on his group, and has good relation with the marked stone:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
be immersed
illluck
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Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Post by illluck »

@VincentCB:

Just curious, did you consider directly push and cut instead of the push for your last move? Was there a particular sequence you didn't like?
VincentCB
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Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Post by VincentCB »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move is pretty much forced now. Next I might add a move in the upper right, depending on how black responds.

@illluck:
I thought about it in a general way, but this fight looked unfavorable, so I didn't really analyze it deeply:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm27 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X 2 1 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Kirby
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Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Post by Kirby »

His shape feels weak. I feel I can continue to attack his group.

Rough waters ahead...

Image
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Kirby
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Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


There are many possible variations. It'd be nice to try to enclose him somehow. In my dream world, maybe I could do something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 1 O 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O 2 3 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'd like the thickness I'd get in the center, and he doesn't get many points for the exchange, because the area where he's living is almost dame.

But like I said, that's a dream sequence. My cutting points could cause me trouble:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 8 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 1 O 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O 2 3 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X 0 X X 4 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O X X O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 1 2 3 X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


On the other hand, maybe I aid in helping this fight by playing on the bottom first. For example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . B , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But after playing my probe in the bottom left corner, I might destroy the aji that I've created in that area, and that would be a pity. I don't want to ruin this area yet by solidifying anything for white.

So I considered directly attacking:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . B . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I kind of like this idea, because if white tries to go out as follows, I can naturally help my group:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But I don't have a good response if white plays here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X 2 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Pushing and cutting is not an option, due to my weakness:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 4 O 7 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O 3 5 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X 8 X X 2 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 9 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So maybe it would be good to simply keep pressuring white while strengthening my group, like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . B . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or perhaps like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . B . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But this seems easy on white. Despite his shape, he has a lot of flexibility with all of the space on the top.

So my goal here is to first make him heavy, then proceed with attacking. I want him to get bad shape here so that he is heavy, then I can continue to attack (or, perhaps adjust my plan, based on what happens).
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moyoaji
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Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Post by moyoaji »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . a . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I love this move by Kirby. It seems to hit a vital point in white's shape to allow black to attack the group. Both cuts work now and I fear the only way to fix both will be to make the dreaded empty triangle at 'a' - and this just barely works thanks to a ladder.

If I were white and I saw my opponent played this my ears might just go red. This hurts.
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."

-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
Bill Spight
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Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Post by Bill Spight »

My prediction. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Covers both cuts.

Not that White cannot give up the :wc: stone. :)


Edit: Unhidden.
Last edited by Bill Spight on Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Post by VincentCB »

At first sight, this seems like the only move, but I'll think about it a little more.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
VincentCB
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Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Post by VincentCB »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I couldn't find a better move. This move prevents black from cutting and helps make shape in the middle. This other move looked interesting, but the result was unclear, so I didn't play it :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Alternative
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Next :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Cap
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . 4 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Kirby
Honinbo
Posts: 9553
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Has thanked: 1583 times
Been thanked: 1707 times

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My attack is starting to seem a bit uninspired. In some ways, this move I am playing is aji keshi, but its purpose is to remove white's eyeshape. The problem is, white still has a lot of space on top, and I am not gaining a ton from these stones I'm moving out.

Earlier in the game, I felt that white was easy on me with this move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That's because, while it was good for him to hurt my shape locally, it let black get the initiative.

Though it's only a couple of moves later, I've had time to think due to the speed of this game, and I feel that this move by me is similar:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My intention was to hurt his shape and make him heavy. But maybe in doing so, it lets him get some initiative in the center.

I want to prevent this from happening. To do this, the move I just played should be sente, and hurts his eye shape. I hope to secure the safety of my group, and then do something on the bottom. I need to make this wall I'm jumping out with effective, because otherwise, I haven't gained much at all from the attack.
be immersed
VincentCB
Dies with sente
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:49 am
Rank: OGS 1 kyu
GD Posts: 0
KGS: KrazyV
Tygem: kaiou19
OGS: VincentCB
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Post by VincentCB »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 4 O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Isn't this a bad exchange? It seems like black is just filling his own liberties. :-?
Kirby
Honinbo
Posts: 9553
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Has thanked: 1583 times
Been thanked: 1707 times

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . 5 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'd very much like to play this move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X . B . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But the cut is just too much for black to handle:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Black: 0 White: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X 1 X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X 2 3 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
be immersed
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