#228 VincentCB vs Kirby

VincentCB · Post by **VincentCB** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:32 am

My next move will most probably be on the top side. I'd prefer to play elsewhere but I don't think I can afford it. I have trouble deciding between these moves :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Candidates $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . a c e . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . b d f . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . 5 . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Instinctively, I'd be tempted to go for 'a' or 'f'.

Dragon Pie · Post by **Dragon Pie** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:58 am

yoyoma · Post by **yoyoma** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:07 pm

VincentCB wrote:My next move will most probably be on the top side. I'd prefer to play elsewhere but I don't think I can afford it. I have trouble deciding between these moves :
$$cm31 Candidates
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . a c e . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . b d f . . . O X , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . X X . 5 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31 Candidates $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . a c e . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . b d f . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . 5 . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Instinctively, I'd be tempted to go for 'a' or 'f'.

Why does he not even list the contact move or shoulder hit left of a/b?

VincentCB · Post by **VincentCB** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:01 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . 6 . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm really not sure about this move. It is pretty big, and I have a good follow-up at 'a' next, but I don't know, it feels kinda... lukewarm :-?

I'd really want to play at 'b', but my group on the left would be lost in a sea of black after he caps at 'c', so I really can't play elsewhere.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Follow-up $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . a . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . 6 . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . c . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . b . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I have honestly no idea where black will play next. For now, I'm just going with the flow and waiting for opportunities.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:14 pm

Some initial thoughts:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . B . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . b . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X a X X c X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It's nice to get this move in as black, but there are a few concerns:
1.) Is it sente? The bottom is a great place for black to invade if I get the chance. My probe from earlier has aji, and certainly the black stones i've run into the center can bring aid to any invasion I make on the bottom. if I play the move above, and it's not sente, white can take action on the bottom to protect.

2.) The connection with my other black stones is a bit weak. There would be aji around a, b, and c if i play this way, and that could be painful for me later in the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . B . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It'd be weird to play this move now, but if i can get this move in naturally while attacking him, I don't have to worry about ladder cut anymore:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X 1 X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X 2 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . 4 . 6 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So how do I get this in naturally? Well, his connection is weak between this group I've been chasing and the stone he just played. I don't know best way to exploit this, but for example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . 2 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . 3 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kind of unsure about this type of thing because:
1.) Maybe I don't get sente to invade bottom.
2.) The cap i play to split, above, becomes a bit of a burden to keep safe. Maybe getting solid connection is enough, but seems maybe bad exchange.
3.) Not clear on how to maintain attack on stones.
4.) My shape of black stones becomes solid with all of those bamboo joints, but i feel it is a bit overconcentrated and inefficient. I spend a lot of moves on stones not getting much territory... Maybe if this lets me invade well on bottom it's k, but, i don't know yet.

It'd be nice to utilize a hane where i tenuki before, somehow:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But it would be important to execute precisely on this, otherwise it'll just become a bad exchange.

If i do invade bottom later, i still am thinking of best way.

If i play on left of his bottom stone, he has two space extension that both helps him and takes away my territory:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . B . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But if i play on that side, he can play to protect bottom:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . O . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . B . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe the aji in corner still lets me do something in this variation, but i don't see it yet... If he gets all that territory, it's pretty big...

tl/dr: Still not quite sure on the general strategy I want to take here. Ideally i continue attack in some way to profit and make my group safe. Then, have sente to invade bottom... but if all goes to plan until that point, i must still think about best way to play on bottom.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:51 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . 7 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move is too good to pass up.

Yes, there are weaknesses around 'a' and 'b':

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . a . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X b X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But how nice would it be to be able to utilize my tenuki from earlier?

For example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . 7 5 O B , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . 6 4 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . 1 2 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . X 8 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe this sequence is a big contrived/wishful, but in any case, I want to make the marked stones useful.

The bottom is still not clear, yet, but maybe we can work something out with that next.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:25 pm

VincentCB · Post by **VincentCB** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:42 pm

I REALLY want to play the move shown below. I think it's good: it strengthens the marked stone, which is the weakest one on the board, and I can aim at invading the right side next. However, I need to check if my group on the left is safe, and I also have to consider alternatives, such as 'a' or 'b' below. I can also play a forcing move somewhere around 'c' if I find a good timing. I don't think I can afford to spend yet another move on the top side. Time to do some reading...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . 7 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . a . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . W . . 8 . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:05 pm

I had been thinking about invading the bottom, but if I can get sente, I want to play here next:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , B . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White can build up the bottom a bit, but my central power will not be that bad!

The key would be getting sente, though. If I don't get sente, he can play in this area first.

For example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . 3 1 2 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . X 4 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . 5 . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't know if white group is still OK or not, but let's assume I get gote. Then he can play :w5:

, above.

I might still be able to make stones work in some way, but it's not clear on the best path. If he plays in routine way without thinking, maybe I can play this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm1 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . 5 7 . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , 1 4 3 . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O 2 6 O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

or:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm1 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , 8 4 5 . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O 6 3 O 9 X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Both of these are well known techniques for helping moyo... But in this case, maybe he will try to mix things up a bit. For example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , 1 . 3 4 . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O 2 . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

or maybe

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . 4 5 6 . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . 3 O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't know who things turn out well for, but it would be a hassle, anyway.

Hopefully, I can figure out a way to make the situation so I get sente in on the top, based on his response. Let's see where he responds, and see if I can ignore it.

VincentCB · Post by **VincentCB** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:18 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I finally decided not to do anything rash. This move makes me thick in the upper right. It's certainly not the most spectacular move, and it does look slow. However, I must avoid leaving weaknesses behind, or else I won't be able to fight strongly. I'm sure this thickness will show its value later.

If I play elsewhere, this is the kind of thing that might happen. I don't see how I could recover from that.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm37 Looking grim $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . 3 O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 9 . . . 7 6 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . 8 . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . 1 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . 2 . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

VincentCB · Post by **VincentCB** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:23 am

I'm leaving for the holidays this afternoon, and I'll be back in about a week. I won't have Internet access meanwhile, so I'll continue the game when I get back home.

Happy Holidays everybody!

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:30 am

His move is pretty good, I think. While I'd like to play here, still:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . W X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . X . C C . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . C C . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , B . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

the marked white stones, above, radiate potential toward this area.

There is still the issue of his connection, so maybe I can keep pressuring him and still get sente to come back and play on the bottom.

I wonder about moves like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . C . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . C . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Of course, he can play with cuts around the marked areas, but I might not care, since such cuts could help me to develop moyo around center.

I wonder if I can secure territory in some way with a move like this, too, to try to push his group so I can naturally play stones to help the moyo in the center in some way:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . 1 3 . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . X . 5 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I really don't know, yet - my thoughts are sloppy an unorganized right now. These are just my first impressions after seeing the board, but I need to play precisely if I want to ensure a good result. If I get a poor result on top and he gets to play first on bottom, white will be at advantage.

I can't let that happen.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:31 am

VincentCB wrote:I'm leaving for the holidays this afternoon, and I'll be back in about a week. I won't have Internet access meanwhile, so I'll continue the game when I get back home.

Happy Holidays everybody!

Have fun, Vincent. I'll take my time in devising a plan. It will be my holiday gift to you.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:17 pm

Hope you had a good break.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm31 Black: 0 White: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . O X , O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . O O . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , X . X X . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

cdybeijing · Post by **cdybeijing** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:12 am

Life In 19x19

#228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby

Re: #228 VincentCB vs Kirby