Hajin Lee's formula for improving at go

[xed_over]

I saw this posted on her Facebook page:
http://www.starbaduk.com/?mid=diary&document_srl=21934

[SoDesuNe]

228481,17=(6*(6+1))^5/(22*(1+25))

[karaklis]

228481,17=(6*(6+1))^5/(22*(1+25))

1.66=(6*(1.7+0.3))^3/(40*(1+25))

Your score is 173623 times higher.

Seems this score is quite nonsensical.

[Marcus]

Qs=3
Ts=3
Qp=1.5
Tg=4
Age=28
L=30

Vg=(3)(3+1.5)^(4)/(28)(1+30)=13.5^(0.00460829493)=1.0120662

I improve not so quickly, I guess.

[tj86430]

Qs=3
Ts=3
Qp=1.5
Tg=4
Age=28
L=30

Vg=(3)(3+1.5)^(4)/(28)(1+30)=13.5^(0.00460829493)=1.0120662

I improve not so quickly, I guess.

Hmm,
3+1.5 = 4.5
3*4.5 = 13.5
13.5^4 = 33215.0625
30+1 = 31
28*31 = 868
33215.0625 / 868 = 38.266201036866359447004608294931

[ethanb]

228481,17=(6*(6+1))^5/(22*(1+25))

1.66=(6*(1.7+0.3))^3/(40*(1+25))

Your score is 173623 times higher.

Seems this score is quite nonsensical.

My guess is that he underestimates his current skill level - 6k is definitely more than 25% of the way from 30k to 9p. Unless Lee Hajin is not already taking into account the geometric progression in amount learned per "level up" as your strength increases (in which case 25% for 6k might even be too much), but that's my take on it.

Although, karaklis, your progression should be lower by the numbers you plugged in - where SoDesuNe spends one hour in study and plays one serious game every day, you spend 15 minutes or so on a couple of L&D problems and play 2 games per week. I would of course expect him to progress faster.

EDIT: also, it's of course not accurate - but it IS instructive. You see easily that by studying a little harder, getting a strong teacher, and playing more serious games you can make a big difference in how quickly you learn. That's the real point.

EDITEDIT:
(5*(1+2))^(6/(30*70)) = 15^(6/2100)
15^0.002857143 ~= 1.00777

Work's been killing me recently - those two games are on average... probably. Same with the "10 minutes," which is really like 2-3 hours of glutting myself on my extremely infrequent days off, plus looking at at least one pro game record every night before bed, even if I don't actually "study" it.

[GoCat]

The age thing really hurts... (says this old guy). I don't even WANT to calculate my number.

[apetresc]

According to her formula, playing a game has the same value as studying for 10 minutes, which seems... odd. I wonder if this was actually what she was trying to say, or if she just didn't notice that fact.

[ethanb]

According to her formula, playing a game has the same value as studying for 10 minutes, which seems... odd. I wonder if this was actually what she was trying to say, or if she just didn't notice that fact.

Might be more accurate than it seems - studying is about exercising and learning, playing is about application. A single game will have two or three serious life and death puzzles at the very most, and may not have any. Mid-game fighting can be hectic though. Or maybe not.

I would guess that a game where both players are giving it their best is probably about equivalent to 1/3 of the wall-clock time spent in the game total as far as learning experience goes (so a game that lasts 1 hour might be worth about 20 minutes of study by that estimate) - but that's just gut feeling, I have no kind of evidence at all to back up that assertion.

But to be honest, not every game I play is my best, for various reasons. So on average, maybe a 45 minute to 1 hour game is worth approximately 10 minutes of study after all.

[Solomon]

Had to do this, even if her formula makes no sense to me:

[LovroKlc]

And what does this speed nomber mean?? Stones per something or what? I do not think it is accurate.

[freegame]

I get around 85.000

Qs=5 (playing against EGF 4d's visiting tournaments, online acces to a lot of material, I have a huge database of Go related stuff)
Ts=6 (very low estimate) today I already did a 90 min lessons and I have another one later today. And this weekeind I played 7 tournament games each around 1 hour. but I do not play much games online anymore.
Qp=3 (also used to be a lot more, but due to lack of time, and a bad internet connection this has droped down a lot. (I play some games at club meating, give lessons, and play an occasional game online.)
Tg=5 (I assume this is average with 1 being retarded and 10 being very gifted)
age= (no guessing needed here I hope )
L=85 (since it's from 1-100 I assumed this to be a percentage. I have around 85% of the EGF players below and 15% above me. of course there are a lot of strong players in asia, but also even more weaker players. So I assume the EGF to be a valid average.)

studying for 50 min or 60 min makes it change from around 50.000 to around 85.000 ... I guess the formula needs some work.
also some units would be nice.
do you for example calculate Vg in stones per year or day or whatever?

I guess the brackets are wrong: (Qs(Ts+Qp))^(Tg/(age(1+L))) gives me an Vg of 1.01 if the units are [stones/year] this could be right.


have a look here to calculate your maximum rank (this seems to work quite well.)

[SoDesuNe]

I guess the brackets are wrong: (Qs(Ts+Qp))^(Tg/(age(1+L))) gives me an Vg of 1.01 if the units are [stones/year] this could be right.

Well, I'd have 1.03 then, but I improved two stones already this year, so it can't be right ^^ With Herman Hidemma's formula I could reach 3 Dan. But I'll make it to 4, just to prove it wrong

[topazg]

According the formula I could hit 5 dan, but there's no way I'm expecting to be able to hit 6 to prove it wrong

5 would be nice one day, but I'm going to need to do more work to get there

[Marcus]

Huh ... Herman's formula ... puts my maximum rank at 1k ... since I do not get pro lessons and have no study discipline at all (I rarely do Tsumego at all, let alone review my own games), I set C to 1. I also set my talent to 10 as I believe I am rather average.

1k? Really? That's depressing. Especially since I'm sure I'll be better than that. Perhaps I can push that C value up to 2 or 3, giving me a maximum rank of 2d, but I have a family and other interests. I just can't justify spending too much time with this game, fun though it is.