The impenetrable wall at 6 kyu

[daal]

Also, any time someone says they broke a barrier, in addition to asking how they did it (e.g., through books, help from a teacher, etc.), make sure to ask at what age they started Go, and at what age they made the breakthrough.

The rate of improvement at age 9 is slightly different than at 45.

I started go at 45, and broke through the 6k barrier by getting a better understanding of what "urgent before big" meant, and I got past 5k with my professional advice method - which whether it works or not is an excellent way of keeping the game fun.

[often]

Typically, when you hit a "wall" in your go improvement it means your basic fundamentals aren't any good.

<insert eventual argument about what basic fundamentals are here. its interesting to discuss but not useful for my current point>

what this means is that all your previous deficiencies add up and consistently show up in your games to prevent you from beating someone higher than your current rank.

a past teacher i had said it this way: "if the foundation is bad, it can only go so high. if the foundation is good, you can keep improving/building"

how do you fix this?
it depends on how much you really want to work at it (seriously)
if you're fixing the problem at the root, you'll need a professional teacher who can show you proper shape and responses. this will take awhile, maybe 1 year or more depending on your effort (dead honest).

if you're not willing to put forth that type of effort, you can devise some ideas or concepts of how to approach the game. it is possible to improve with that mindset, however you will never be a "firm" rank, because it will be very easy for you to lose to someone with better fundamentals very quickly.

[peti29]

In my previous game, regarding black 4 and Bill's suggestion:
Yes I absolutely love that joseki. The problem is, lately my opponents tend to bump into my 4-3 stone instead of the outer hane. I don't like / know the complicated josekis that follow (e.g. avalanche). The simple version would just seal me in, giving too much influence for white in the middle of my would-have-been double wing-(ish thing).
Thus I decided I want the lower side rather than fight for the corner.

Now something different:
I'm feeling a little bit stronger now. But a new, uncomfortable feeling is when looking back at a game I feel that not I won but rather my opponent lost. Like in my last game.

Initially I didn't want to, but I can't resist to post this game too (I'm black):

http://files.gokgs.com/games/2014/2/18/capgun-Peti29.sgf

- lower left: it turned out later when I checked it in Kogo's that that joseki is valid against the 4-4 stone too. I thought I made a mistake there, but it seemed still ok
- lower right: here is the aforementioned joseki Bill suggested in my other game. I diverted at the end because I didn't want to have all my stones low on the 3rd line on the bottom side. (Also I misremembered and thought that there is a variation like that. I have no idea what the punishment from white should have been.)
- upper right: I played out a joseki without knowing. I'm proud. Also I really liked how it turned out: my wall with the G17 stone.
- upper left: I thought about double approach but honestly I had no idea about how to do it.
- white's K17 invasion: they say you gotta harass your opponent towards your wall. My problem usually is: how? I was content with the result, except now my top left group was weak.
- I think sacrificing the D14 stone was good idea.
- then I got to harass another weak white group which eventually allowed to save my weak top group but that was only luck.
- even worse: after white O6 and O7 my N6 group was in big trouble. I think my opponent shouldn't have let that escape.
- it was again only luck that black L4 turned out to be sente, so I could save my lover right corner group
- so lucky again: the left for dead D-14 stone was just at the best place
- the rest was endgame. (I liked K18. G13 was misread - I thought that was going to be atari on the G11 group)

My main concern with those lucky situations is that I can't reproduce them. And I can't expect to always get lucky...

[oca]

[EDIT]pointless comments... missed post #12 sorry...[EDIT]
Hello,

First, I would like to say that you certainly way play better then me...
so the intents of the following comments is just to tell you things that I didn't understand in the game,
but I suppose it's just me... anyway here we go...

My understanding first :

- move B14 - If I understand well, the intent is an invasion to reduce white potential...
- move W15 - White pincered
- move B16 - you exited to the center
- move W17 - Corner get protected by white

My comments are :

- At 14, why not attacking the corner from the other side at F 17 ? or just make a wing at K17 or K16 ? did that invasion really succeded ? ( If we go to let's say move 35, what I seen in this top-left area is trapped, over concentreted stones ...)

- If 14 like you played, then at 16, why not "really invading the corner" with the 3-3 point invasion joseki ?
- Move B18 - still a try to enter or reduce more ?, seems to me that there are bigger points with playing tenuki on top ?...


Once again, I just try to understand from my level... if my comments are useless, just ignore... (or even better let me know why )

[EdLee]

oca, did you look at Bill's Post #12 ?

[oca]

oca, did you look at Bill's Post #12 ?

#12

One, you made a lot of plays that just aimed at making territory for yourself. That's inefficient. Bad habit.
...

sorry... missed that post .. appologies ... my coments are pointless...

Like in my game, I went to fast... the way you live is the way you play...

[Boidhre]

sorry... missed that post .. appologies ... my coments are pointless...

They're not at all. It's just when you're weaker you're putting up comments on a game as much to get those comments reviewed as to provide a review yourself.

[EdLee]

Hi oca,

It's OK.

At , why not attacking the corner from the other side at F17 ?

You mean to "approach" the corner from F17 direction, not "attack".
To attack a target, the target must be weak.
The W stone at D16, , is not weak; therefore B cannot attack it -- but B can approach it from F17 direction.

[oca]

Yes indeed, I really meant "approach", but.. I said (or write) "attack" like an uncontroled impulsion..
that's interessing... I have to think about that...
I really feel that to impove my go, I have to work on me with the help of the game, not to work directly on the game itself... strange feeling... thanks for the comment.

[peti29]

- Move B18 - still a try to enter or reduce more ?, seems to me that there are bigger points with playing tenuki on top ?...

Hi, oca!
This is an interesting question that hasn't been addressed so far.
I played move 18 (at B-15) to defend against a cut (at D-14) and also to threaten the corner. My two stones became too weak after the touch and trapped between the corner and the white stone at C-12. I don't think I could have afforded to tenuki there - though I might be wrong about that.

Your other questions that have already been answered tell of good insight .

[Boidhre]

Yes indeed, I really meant "approach", but.. I said (or write) "attack" like an uncontroled impulsion..
that's interessing... I have to think about that...
I really feel that to impove my go, I have to work on me with the help of the game, not to work directly on the game itself... strange feeling... thanks for the comment.

Outside of reading, someone's main problem with go tends to be how they approach the game mentally (e.g. not being aggressive enough where warranted, being too aggressive when not warranted etc).

[oca]

I played move 18 (at B-15) to defend against a cut (at D-14) and also to threaten the corner.

oh ok I got it...
With my limited knowledge, I think I may have played D14 directly to prevent the cut. but that will not threaten the corner and would been a very small move.
That's just that I dont like to play a diagonal move which doesn't have two way to connect back (I'm a bit shy I suppose)

[skydyr]

A quick review:

http://lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4172

[peti29]

skydyr: thank you for your review!

Here is yet another game. Finally I'm peeping through that wall! If you'd like me to stop posting games, please tell me so. I'm thinking there are a lot of people in my shoes (I'm not entirely sure this phrase exists in English), so these may be useful for others as well.

- white move 10: huh? I didn't see this coming. From now on I intended to respond to invasions high in order to separate from the "premade" escape route and also to put pressure on the tengen stone.
- black move 11: I didn't want that huge white moyo to form, thus I diverged from the joseki. I thought it'd be ok, since white omitted the last step too.
- white 14 stepped willingly into an existing pincer so I decided to defend the other side. Playing high because of the tengen stone and also to put more pressure on the invading stone.
- black 17 felt a little bit over-concentrated by I didn't want complications there. I was content with white living small in my corner while I get strong towards the side.
- black 19 is probably bad-ish. I wanted to keep that living group separated from tengen.
- black 25 should probably have been a simple shimari instead
- black 27 again to separate
- I don't know how to best answere white 36
- black 39 again to separate
- black 49: I didn't know how to deal with white 48 so instead I chose to fix my shape
- white 50-52: thank you for making me strong
- black 65: I was tempted to cut but decided it was too early
- white 66: I think this was an overplay. It was time to strike
- around black 75: I knew something will die on the bottom. I thought I would be able to save the J-3 stone though.
- black 93: probably cowardly. I didn't want to lose that big center territory. I wanted to keep those white stones dead at all cost.
- black 101: I was aware of the double atari coming. I constantly worried for the M-10 group.
- black 107: probably Q-12 would've been better (despite the snap back)
- black 115: I'm again lucky. That N-5 stone helps a lot.
- black 129: still lucky. I can either live or capture - I think...

http://files.gokgs.com/games/2014/2/19/ckrone-Peti29.sgf

[oca]

so these may be useful for others as well.

oh yes I like it
on black move 5, is there a reason to approch the weak side of komoku on the 4th line instead of the thrid line on E17?

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