Wish we had a better introductory Go website + goban applet!

[goTony]

I think http://321go.org/?ln=uk is nice. (The Dutch version is better though).

Sadly, it's offline at the moment. However, I do recall checking this out when it first came out. I seem to remember that it was better than average, but on the other hand, I'd forgotten about it entirely (and nothing has reminded me about it since then, suggesting it's not exactly a must-see resource). I hope you're right though, I look forward to seeing what it's like now.

How about this? http://www.usgo.org/learn-play

It's not bad. The video is pretty good, actually. But we've already discussed the flash based interactive way to go, which was "austere" even in 2005 when I first saw it. Overall it's still rather basic, and not a place I'd particularly consider sending newbies to.

Yes the Interactive Way to Go is very basic and not exactly exciting but I think it is quite user-friendly. I could teach all needed rules, life and death, and basic tactics and simple strategic principles in five minutes but I doubt whether true beginners would remember much. They'd be overwhelmed. For real beginners starting with really basic things and doing them over and over is the way to do it. Repetition is the soul of teaching. The index of IWTG allows skipping ahead for people who are fast learners. My favorite beginners' book is Iwamoto's Go for Beginners. I think it's really elegant but it probably isn't good for true beginners. The first book in Janet Kim's series is more practical but much more basic. I've seen too many beginners give up the game because they got overwhelmed when first learning. Another aspect of this is that beginners need other beginners to play with. It can be mind boggling how many ranks weaker they are than most of the players in the club, and the stronger players have only so much patience for playing real beginners. And beginners can be frustrated at having to play so many people on small boards. Good computer programs that can be adjusted to play at a weak level have their uses but beginners need the personal interaction with a human partner in my opinion.

So true I see this at our little club. Real beginners need other beginners. It makes the game genuinely winnable for them. Playing experienced players can be overwhelming. And lets be honest it is boring for us...
I may not be strong but waiting 5 min for a person to respond to an atari on a 5x5 board is a bit tedious. I love introducing the game to newbies, but I find they really enjoy playing other newbies and learning, struggling, laughing together. I really enjoy glancing at newbie games the attacks so audacious, the missed opportunities so glaring, it is truly a fun game to behold.

[goTony]

Despite my love for this game, I honestly have no idea where to send my friends or my children if they express an interest in learning more about the game. There are no websites or resources that I know of that I believe would be attractive, compelling or approachable enough to grab and sustain their interest. I find this an enduring tragedy. I find it depressing that even when programs like Hikaru or Teen Wolf promote our game, we have to suitable place to send that interest.

If I'm wrong, and there are good resources, please let me know!

Tigersmouth is a kids site. It is sadly not very active currently.

[Charlie]

I saw Flash and Java mentioned a few times in this thread and feel obliged to point out that such technologies are not suitable for something like the O.P. proposes.

What Go needs is an introduction which begins, seamlessly, with a single page load from a convenient URI.

Unless the visitor is already fascinated by the game, a chess player looking to cross over or a Hikaru fan, they'll almost certainly just close the browser tab if it starts prompting them to register or install stuff or update a plug-in.

[dfunkt]

I worked as a web designer and front-end developer for a couple years, and when I discovered the game of Go I was surprised by the clunky, stuck-in-the-90s designs of our online community's websites and web applications. I think the game of Go could be spread much better across various contexts if we had a couple of excellently designed/developed web applications to share with anyone who was interested in learning Go. I'm sure you have thought so too.

Among the things that would be the biggest help to spreading Go include:
- A beautiful and easy-to-use website that introduces the rules of Go in an interactive way.
The interactive way to play Go is the closest thing to this as far as I know, but IWTG could benefit so much from a more attractive design. Other good resources are locked away in sites like cyberoro/wbaduk. Books are not as friendly or fun to beginners.

- A embeddable, resizable goban web applet that looks great.
Eidogo seems to be the highest-quality plugin available at the moment, and if it were just width-responsive and perhaps reskinnable, it would be flexible enough to be incredibly useful for teaching websites and online lectures. I unfortunately don't have the JS expertise to develop this javascript goban applet, but if such an applet existed, I think I could develop an amazing website to serve as a first-point-of-entry to beginners who are interested in learning about Go.*

*italics added for emphasis

Why not devote your self to learning the JS and make the site yourself? If you feel there is a need for a new go site with the newest web technology then just do it. When the developers of Nova.gs thought there was a need for new server they just began and learned as they went. These projects will truly answer your question:

Do you guys agree that the community could benefit from some well-designed and developed web tools?

[dfunkt]

Maybe you should talk to the author of this post: http://www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments/23alm1/check_out_httpgobanco/

[Charlie]

Maybe you should talk to the author of this post: http://www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments/23alm1/check_out_httpgobanco/

That site looks nice - clean, modern and simple. The stones appear aliased and there seems to be some graphical ugliness during a resize although it does go away once the resize has finished. Mostly, I like it from a visual perspective.

Mouse interaction is adequate. You can't navigate with the scroll wheel but one could argue that overloading the scroll wheel in a browser is a bad idea, anyway, so this might not count as a missing feature. Keyboard interaction is implemented - arrow keys can be used to navigate through the moves.

You cannot place stones after navigating backwards unless you return to the head of the current branch. This is a big flaw that should be rectified.

I clicked about a bit and the only domain related bug I could find is the omission of the ko-rule. (Ok, that might be rather a large one, to be sure.)

The HTML looks clean - I approve of the use of a canvas instead of positioned elements. I'd like to hear the developer's argument for using four overlaid ones but it seems plausible that there is a good reason behind this decision.

The Javascript is minified so I didn't review it. I wonder whether the original script was factored into separate scripts for the board implementation and communication with the server-side API?

I did not experiment with the other features such as downloading the game or grabbing a link to the board with its position.

[Gerlige]

Hello everyone! I'm Hayang, and I'm a college student who leads a Go club...

Would you be kind enough to share your materials with others? I mean your presentation looks really good. Though I also teach go to beginners and hunt new players, I'm not graphically skilled enough to make something so good or eye catching. I would consider it great help, if everyone could use your materials for good.