Petty Complaints and Anxieties

[Abyssinica]

I've never touched the stuff, but apparently a possible side effect is becoming an Asian.

Not sure what this means.

Doing lsd makes you think you are Asian.

[darWIN]

he just said that so he could save them later,

Ah, would be most helpful to have the game record. Otherwise, impossible to know exactly what was the situation on the board.

So you do not believe me? I'm telling the truth, he was trying to make me think they were stones which were in a position to be taken off at the end of the game, when they weren't, or that it was a move that I could make later, and would take away "sentei" or something, but actually I would have been far better off, had I made sure those stones had no way of escape. It's called a capture race not a capture snail. Basically he told me my move was bad when it wasn't, he was just losing. I don't like people giving me bad advice under the pretense of being older and wiser and teaching. That's slimy and dirty and especially despicable considering I'm a young woman and he's an old man.

You don't have to believe me though, I don't care, I've had enough people treat me unfairly to be used to it.

Or maybe you think he was trying to give good advice and I just didn't realize it at the time because I wasn't good enough at the game. Well, if his advice made me lose an entire corner of the board and part of the middle, it couldn't have been that great.

[skydyr]

...I'd get his stones to a place where they were in serious danger of being captured, and so I'd continue to capture them, and he'd say, "that's alright you can do that later." but he just said that so he could save them later, I realized after the game when I lost a fight I was winning.

Well, depending on the board, the comment he made could be quite legitimate. Early on in the game, for example, it may be possible to capture, say, a group of 10 stones. When you make the capture, though, to keep the stones dead, your opponent may be able to get a lot of forcing moves on the outside. In addition, you give up sente to kill, so your opponent gets the pick of the next place to play on the board. Sometimes it's worth it to kill right away, sometimes it isn't, because if your opponent spends a move living you'll get two free moves in other places on the board, which may be worth more.

The hardest part, of course, is not only resisting killing right away, in that situation, but figuring out the timing to come back and kill it. Too early, and it's not worth enough. Too late, and your opponent will save them but you won't get enough compensation in other places.

If this happens, I would definitely ask them about it. It may be that you got the timing wrong after the initial suggestion, or it may be that they misjudged it originally (strong players aren't infallible), or it may be that they tried to psych you out. It's also possible that they lived, but you didn't take the biggest points in compensation and so you lost out. As Edlee mentioned, it's hard to tell without seeing the exact board positions. Regardless of the answer, hopefully it will be a learning experience: either to a better understanding of go, or to the realization that this person is full of it and not worth playing again.

EDIT:
I missed your followup message, but if that's the case, there's no requirement to play them again, and I'm sorry you had to deal with them.

[darWIN]

EDIT:
I missed your followup message, but if that's the case, there's no requirement to play them again, and I'm sorry you had to deal with them.

Thank you for your kind words. I still like the game. It's a nice distraction for me, and actually it has cheered me up during bad times. I think I learned an important lesson though. If I want to get good at this, I have to learn by playing, and that is always fun, the silence, the puzzles you create on the board. I will not listen to anyone's advice on how you play ever again. Because if I've learned anything it's that I can only trust you to be untrustworthy.

Although, I think that a Go player at their best I can also trust to be a friend who likes to play, patient, shy and retiring perhaps. Is that too optimistic?

[judicata]

I will not listen to anyone's advice on how you play ever again. Because if I've learned anything it's that I can only trust you to be untrustworthy.

I'm sorry for your recent bad experiences, but you're jumping off the deep end here. Some people lie; some are mean; many people are genuinely helpful. You can be spiteful, suspicious, isolated, and alone, or you can shrug it off and move on. Do you see yourself as too fragile or weak to endure the occasional insult or loss?

[Polama]

EDIT:
I missed your followup message, but if that's the case, there's no requirement to play them again, and I'm sorry you had to deal with them.

Thank you for your kind words. I still like the game. It's a nice distraction for me, and actually it has cheered me up during bad times. I think I learned an important lesson though. If I want to get good at this, I have to learn by playing, and that is always fun, the silence, the puzzles you create on the board. I will not listen to anyone's advice on how you play ever again. Because if I've learned anything it's that I can only trust you to be untrustworthy.

Although, I think that a Go player at their best I can also trust to be a friend who likes to play, patient, shy and retiring perhaps. Is that too optimistic?

You say he was stationed in Korea: I wonder if he was a frequent Bang Neki player (gambling Go). If so, that might explain bad sportsmanship, as people get cutthroat when money is involved. If that was his background, he may even have intended the swindle as a positive thing, that you trick young players very explicitly so they learn not to trust stronger players during a game. I don't know, but gambling groups develop weird social norms.

Absolutely you should try to ignore advice during a game, because it's your game to play. And I wouldn't trust other people's advice in general either: not because they are trying to trick you (I think people are much happier when they give each other the benefit of the doubt), but because you learn so much more when you take any advice and prove it for yourself, turning it over in your head, attacking it critically. Knowing a sequence is liked by strong players helps your game, but not as much as dissecting it and understanding intuitively why it's a preferred way of playing. So question advice critically, because it could be wrong and because it'll stay with you better when you've studied it deeply looking for flaws, but not because you think everybody is trying to get you.

[darWIN]

I will not listen to anyone's advice on how you play ever again. Because if I've learned anything it's that I can only trust you to be untrustworthy.

I'm sorry for your recent bad experiences, but you're jumping off the deep end here. Some people lie; some are mean; many people are genuinely helpful. You can be spiteful, suspicious, isolated, and alone, or you can shrug it off and move on. Do you see yourself as too fragile or weak to endure the occasional insult or loss?

I'm sorry you're so stupid that hearing one story makes you think I'm jumping off the deep end. I'm sorry that one story of a moment of suspicion makes you think these qualities define me.

And to answer your question, if I was too fragile to endure the occasional insult or loss, I would have killed myself long ago, not from games, but from the joke that was my very existence. If you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all.

[Abyssinica]

I will not listen to anyone's advice on how you play ever again. Because if I've learned anything it's that I can only trust you to be untrustworthy.

I'm sorry for your recent bad experiences, but you're jumping off the deep end here. Some people lie; some are mean; many people are genuinely helpful. You can be spiteful, suspicious, isolated, and alone, or you can shrug it off and move on. Do you see yourself as too fragile or weak to endure the occasional insult or loss?

I'm sorry you're so stupid that hearing one story makes you think I'm jumping off the deep end. I'm sorry that one story of a moment of spite and suspicion makes you think these qualities define me.

And to answer your question, if I was too fragile to endure the occasional insult or loss, I would have killed myself long ago, not from games, but from the joke that was my very existence. If you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all.

I suggest you re-read this when you wake up tommorow.

[darWIN]

You don't know me. You don't know what my life was like. You don't know how much I have suffered. I think I'm right to have my opinion of all other people be that they are selfish and despicable and worthless. If I'm wrong you'll have to prove to me your goodness. But I see no reason as of now to doubt this analysis of the human species.

[Abyssinica]

I'm not saying anything about you; you're just assuming that I think you have no right to think X or feel Y; I'm not even saying you're wrong. What I am saying is that you're yelling and complaining about how horrible the human race is on an internet comedy forum go forum. When you calm down tomorrow/in a week, you'll see what I mean. It's just silly to be angry at no one in particular here.

[xed_over]

he just said that so he could save them later,

Ah, would be most helpful to have the game record. Otherwise, impossible to know exactly what was the situation on the board.

So you do not believe me?

I'm sure its not about believing or disbelieving. I think Ed has just missed the point of your story. I suspect he only wanted to see the position in order to try and gauge if the advice given was even close to valid advice. But that's not the point as I see it. The point I hear from your story is that advice given was unasked for, and sounds like even unwanted.

I often talk a lot during games with beginners, and offer advice on what I think are better moves. But I also let them know that they are free to tell me to shutup at any time. I don't care about winning a game. I care about helping someone improve their skills. Every opponent I play, approaches the game differently at different times, and I try to read them to see what kind of game they want to play -- a teaching game, a serious game, etc.

[darWIN]

I'm not saying anything about you; you're just assuming that I think you have no right to think X or feel Y; I'm not even saying you're wrong. What I am saying is that you're yelling and complaining about how horrible the human race is on an internet comedy forum go forum. When you calm down tomorrow/in a week, you'll see what I mean. It's just silly to be angry at no one in particular here.

Yeah, you're right, but I have a lot of frustrations right now. If you knew what my life was like, you would understand.

[Bantari]

You don't know me. You don't know what my life was like. You don't know how much I have suffered. I think I'm right to have my opinion of all other people be that they are selfish and despicable and worthless. If I'm wrong you'll have to prove to me your goodness. But I see no reason as of now to doubt this analysis of the human species.

Yeah, you're right, but I have a lot of frustrations right now. If you knew what my life was like, you would understand.

You keep bringing it up to explain away your bad behavior.
Well, then either tell us what your life is/was like so we can understand or don't use it as an argument.
In either case, whatever happened to you is no excuse to treat others the way you do. Life is tough for everybody.

You seem to have some serious issues, dude.
But this is a Go forum, not a psychiatric help forum.
Nobody here is required to prove it to you they are not worthless or something. It is you who came here asking questions, and when people try to talk to you in a civil manner you throw a hissy fit. Treat people with respect, and only then you can expect the same.

So get over yourself.

PS>
Whatever happened to you in the past, people judge you not on that but on how you treat others now. I knew people who went through a concentration camp during WWII, and they still came out on the other end being nice and polite and respectful to others. And willing to listen and talk in a civil manner. Whatever happened, today is the first day of the rest of your life, its up to you what you do with that.

[wineandgolover]

DarWIN thinks people are hopeless. I'd say the same for this thread. He sucked good people into spending their good time and effort to help him, then rewarded them with insults and self-pity.

Three pages? Really?

[Abyssinica]

DarWIN thinks people are hopeless. I'd say the same for this thread. He sucked good people into spending their good time and effort to help him, then rewarded them with insults and self-pity.

Three pages? Really?

You mean people don't set their posts per page to 40?