CEGO Qualification

[HermanHiddema]

Herman, which information can we read about "the wider CEGO setup" and related tournaments?

The original CEGO contract has sections on the grand slam, bonus points tournaments, etc.

[HermanHiddema]

There would be no discrimination WRT to non-EGF European countries if the status "EGF Professional" was created. However, since the status is called something like "European Professional", it is also creating the related discrimination. Such a title is a lie as long as not every European is eligible.

Every European is welcome to found an association and join the EGF, if their country does not already have such an association. The membership fee for a new developing association is only € 50,- per year for their first 5 years, which can hardly be called an obstacle.

[RobertJasiek]

You presume that a) the EGF accepts every new country immediately (this is not so) and b) a strong player in a non-EGF country has the skill, time and energy to initiate or sufficiently support creation of a national association in his country (how then can he still have enough time to become a very strong player...?).

(EDITED)

[RBerenguel]

You presume that a) the EGF accepts every new country immediately (this is not so) and b) a strong player in a non-EGF country has the skill, time and energy to initiate or sufficiently support creation of a national association in his country (how then can he still have enough time to become a very strong player...?).

(EDITED)

I guess from Hermann's comment that you only need to *be* the organisation. IIRC in most countries, to create an association you just need a handful of papers (that you have to write yourself, like bases, statuses and such) and maybe pay a fee somewhere. It's usually a pretty dull bureaucratic thing: if an incredibly strong player wants to become pro I'm pretty sure he can figure out how to do this and I'd bet the EGF would make some kind of "fast acceptance" to make sure they wouldn't miss the player as candidate.

[Uberdude]

I'm sure that Azerbaijanian 6 dan (cough cough) is feeling left out...

[tapir]

Herman, which information can we read about "the wider CEGO setup" and related tournaments?

The original CEGO contract has sections on the grand slam, bonus points tournaments, etc.

Yes, but don't you agree that the only definite information about the grand slam tournaments so far is the minimum prize money? The rest is a pledge to do more PR and the hope to get easier media access through higher profile / official support from China. This conspicuously looks like magical thinking to me. Let us say this works out as planned, Go is local news two or three times a year, so what? You can put this in an activity report to CEGO, but will a single person take up Go because of that? And if they do, is European Go any better set up now than in 2004 to absorb an influx of new players?

(It obviously isn't my money, but if it were I would like to see exposure not in news (who cares about news?), but in lifestyle magazines, parenting talkshows and given the age profile in Europe I would shamelessly advertise it as an activity to stay mentally active in old age and still have a fun with your grandchildren, when playing football together is clearly beyond limits.)

[Javaness2]

I would say that the lack of well presented information around the new pro system is more of a problem than the ability of new countries to join the EGF. The contract is very heavy going, and some parts are frankly so unclear as to make the normal reader just shrug, give up, and go back to reading something else.This year South Africa is applying to be an Associate Member of the EGF - actually there is no such class of membership, so I believe it should have been reported that they are applying for Observer status. I'm curious to know why they would want to join! Does somebody in South Africa want to be a pro?

[kex]

Honestly, and I hope you are not too much offended, I doubt you know much about communism.

<...snip...>
Sorry for the OT rant, but it certainly felt necessary.

I suspect he knows more about communism (first-hand) than most on this forum. I certainly reprehend this post and wonder why people liked it.

[quantumf]

This year South Africa is applying to be an Associate Member of the EGF - actually there is no such class of membership, so I believe it should have been reported that they are applying for Observer status. I'm curious to know why they would want to join! Does somebody in South Africa want to be a pro?

As the sponsor of this initiative, I'm happy to answer any questions about it, although that is largely off-topic. On topic, this initiative was started long before CEGO came on the scene (even if it was only submitted to the EGF in the last year), and as such, CEGO/pro status was absolutely unrelated to our desire to join the EGF. Now that CEGO is here, however, we'd have to clarify what it would mean for South African players, if our request to join the EGF is agreed/approved.

I don't know if anyone in South Africa wants to be a pro - perhaps Victor Chow, but I rather doubt it. I don't know of anyone else who would be close to the necessary strength at this stage, but I guess that could change if pro status was attainable. Even if it became a possibility (which seems highly unlikely to me at this point), logistics would dictate the person moving to Europe anyway.

[tapir]

I suspect he knows more about communism (first-hand) than most on this forum. I certainly reprehend this post and wonder why people liked it.

It probably was the shared feeling that 1) Chinese sponsorship for EGF receives more and partly completely weird criticism than the overall fairly similar Korean scheme with the AGA (and 2) communism isn't a good descriptive term for the political-economical system in China these days.) While I do have publicly expressed doubts about the results of this partnership I didn't really want to be associated with this reply of Bantari to my previous post and could not find a better way to disassociate myself.

[Matti]

There would be no discrimination WRT to non-EGF European countries if the status "EGF Professional" was created. However, since the status is called something like "European Professional", it is also creating the related discrimination. Such a title is a lie as long as not every European is eligible.

Such title is not a lie. If you do not accept the principle that the organisation serves its members and does not need to serve its non-members, then there is nothing left to discuss. Any new European country can form a go association and get it accepted as EGF member. Becoming a member may take time, but the same conditions have applied to all members. This is not discirimation. I think using the word discirimation is a disservice to those who really get discriminated.

I find it ridiculous, if the EGF would not be allowed to use the word "European" in a title, until all European countries have members of EGF.

[C. Blue]

I would say that the lack of well presented information around the new pro system is more of a problem

I also find it funny that I have to get news about CEGO-Stuff from.. the US-Go website :-p
http://www.usgo.org/news/2014/04/ali-ja ... o-qualies/

[RobertJasiek]

If you do not accept the principle that the organisation serves its members and does not need to serve its non-members

This is not what I suggest. I am criticising that the EGF intends to issue a title having a greater name (European) than it represents (EGF countries). This is unlike that name European Go Federation, which means "a go federation in Europe with the intended scope to cover the whole Europe some time". A title "European Professional" suggests the meaning "professional somewhere in Europe", but the design of the title lets the meaning be less: "professional in an EGF country".

It is ok to speak informally of European professionals (and this can easily include those Europeans having got an Asian pro title) or Japanese professionals. However, e.g., Japan does it better: the professionals there are called correctly "Nihon Kiin" or "Kansai Kiin" professionals, i.e. professionals of the relevant associations.

[John Fairbairn]

Although, unlike Robert, I don't think this is an important point in practice, there was nothing to stop the EGF and CEGO using the more accurate phrase EGF professional. It's even one syllable shorter.

It also gets round some of the political knots - e.g., especially in the light of current unrest, is a Russian really a European? Am I, as a Brit? (I don't really regard myself as European).

[Javaness2]

As the sponsor of this initiative, I'm happy to answer any questions about it,

Great Why does South Africa want to join the EGF? I cannot think of much that we could offer to you, except perhaps the rating system, although joining that when there is no intermingling of players would be a mite odd.