Tsumego/Tesuji apps for iPad, iPhone & Android devices

[lobotommy]

I think it is a normal way of today business: If you want to protect yours revenue you need to scan and check main digital stores about piracy and react if something wrong happen. There are only three stores: AppStore, GooglePlay, Amazon. It is not that hard to check for apps and books about go there (at least it's easy in AppStore, GooglePlay is harder but it's possible too).

About buying the apps: 4-7 €/$/£ is really not a problem. The only problem is time you need to verify the content, but it is not that hard too. An hour? Done.

So if there are any concerns about piracy the owner of the rights should be able to verify them in one day. For all apps available on the market right now.

It's XXI century, digital goods are standards now, and if someone want to be still in the business he needs to know how to work in this new business world. And how to defend their property. So if they really think about their future they should already know what to do, and where the money are, and how to protect what they created.

[wineandgolover]

FYI, the purchase for Life and Death of Go and Tesuji of Go is now $4.99, each.

[lobotommy]

FYI, the purchase for Life and Death of Go and Tesuji of Go is now $4.99, each.

Thanks, both apps info updated.

[tchan001]

I think it is a normal way of today business: If you want to protect yours revenue you need to scan and check main digital stores about piracy and react if something wrong happen. There are only three stores: AppStore, GooglePlay, Amazon. It is not that hard to check for apps and books about go there (at least it's easy in AppStore, GooglePlay is harder but it's possible too).

About buying the apps: 4-7 €/$/£ is really not a problem. The only problem is time you need to verify the content, but it is not that hard too. An hour? Done.

So if there are any concerns about piracy the owner of the rights should be able to verify them in one day. For all apps available on the market right now.

It's XXI century, digital goods are standards now, and if someone want to be still in the business he needs to know how to work in this new business world. And how to defend their property. So if they really think about their future they should already know what to do, and where the money are, and how to protect what they created.

Are you suggesting that because the owners of the rights have not spent the time and money to verify the content of apps, that it is acceptable for you to purchase and use such apps even if you suspect that it contains pirated content of in-copyright material which the rights owners are currently not aware of?

[wineandgolover]

Are you suggesting that because the owners of the rights have not spent the time and money to verify the content of apps, that it is acceptable for you to purchase and use such apps even if you suspect that it contains pirated content of in-copyright material which the rights owners are currently not aware of?

Interesting, tchan. You are the one making unsubstantiated accusations here. For all we know, the problems are properly licensed.

Perhaps it would be more productive if you contact the publishers of the books in question, alert them of your suspicions, and if they desire, they'll take the appropriate action.

Having a go at lobotommy seems like ill-directed aggression.

[tchan001]

Not having a go at lobotommy. Just that lobotommy in his statement is putting the onus of obstructing piracy on the owners of the rights. The question at hand is whether an end user would morally consent to use an app knowing it contains pirated material. Whether they do or not is up to the individual, but if there is advice to promote the method of getting pirated material, that would seem to be against the policy of the forum.

I highly suspect whether the apps could license all the rights to many famous Japanese tsumego books because many of these are so out of print and the rights would be so hard to track that the only source for such material is possibly only via the wrong channels. I have spent a substantial amount of money buying rare go problem books and I know how unavailable some of them are. Why would it be so easy for these app makers to be able to find such books and their contents if it were so difficult for me to find and obtain them, not to mention the time needed to convert the knowledge to electronic form for my own use. I just don't think it is an easy job to secure the rights for using such works. That is why I'm challenging the assumption that just because it is included in a commercial app, it is totally safe from copyright violations. I have no problem with commercial apps providing a nice interface and you yourself entering collections of problems which you own from your own books or collections of problems from ancient manuals which are out of copyright.

You need to realize that go problems are not just magically there because some monkeys threw some go pieces on a board. Some are well composed problems with intricate variations which have been thought through thoroughly by geniuses of the game. Some of these may have already passed away, but the rights of their work are probably with their remaining family members who may not have a good grasp of English or of modern technology.

I challenge people who think go problems are easily obtainable to try to research how to BUY rare Asian go problem books physically. You might say you could borrow those books from a library, but does that mean you can turn the info into electronic form for SALE to others without permission?

Try researching these books for example and let me know how often these physical books turn up for sale even in Japan:
Author: Kada Katsuji 加田克司
Series: 加田克司傑作詰碁1-8
Series: 加田克司衆妙詰碁1-4

[lobotommy]

Tchan, I agree with most of thing you have wrote.
However I will defend the idea that publisher should be aware what is going on on the modern market and do some monitoring.

iPad is 3 years old, iPhone is 6 years on the market right now. I can't believe that in the most advanced technologically countries like Japan/Korea the publishers aren't aware of them and that they are behind in todays mobile revolution...

I bought almost all the apps mentioned in this topic (ChoU 4x4 is an exception) with not even one thought about piracy or any concerns about legality because it was bought in AppStore...
If there is some questionable content then I'm sorry, but I can't verify any of it. I don't speak Japanese, Korean or Chinese, I have no books to compare and verify anything and to check what is taken from which source.

There is a law, and the old roman rule is: not guilty till proven.
The owners of the rights are probably the only ones which know if these apps are licensed or not. And the authors of these mentioned apps of course.

So if anybody is concerned about legality of content in the apps mentioned here, and have a chance to ask legal publishers about it - he should ask them and resolve this problem.

[Bantari]

Here is what I think, if anybody cares.

There are laws and they possibly impose several layers of concern:
1. The author should look after his rights and be aware how and where his work is used.
2. The Publisher/distributor should uphold these laws and make sure everything is legit with what he publishes/distributes.
3. The end user should also be aware, and make sure whatever he/she buys is legal.

Now, in reality, several things can (and do) happen:
1. The authors can be oblivious, don't care, or simply have no way of verification or enforcement.
2. The publishers/distributors might be oblivious, not care, be crooked, or whatever. Here the 'no way of verification' I chalk under 'crooked'.
3. The user can dump all the burden of validation on the previous two layers and assert that if somebody distributes something (and has not been caught yet) it is perfectly OK to buy it. Until you get caught, that is.

I am not a lawyer, so it is hard for me to comment on the legality of the above, but I know that it does happen.

However... in this discussion the issue is that of morality, not of law, as I understand it. In other words:
If you know that the material you purchase might or even does violate somebody's rights, and that you, in possibly cahoots with the publisher/distributor, are basically ripping somebody off... is that ethical for you to do? I think this is a question everybody has to answer for themselves, and then live with the answer.

I know there is a large group out there, mostly the 'everything for free' faction, who possibly does not care, as long as they can get it and get it cheap. I call them collectively "the opportunists", although possibly unjustly. Other than tightening the laws and straightening out the enforcement, there is nothing that can be done about that.

Personally, I believe in the right of the author. When you create something, you should have full control over your creation. And it is up to you to keep it, sell it, license it, or give it away for free. And the rest of the gang, the publishers, distributors, users, and whatnot - they all should respect author's wishes. To me this is the only way quality good get produced, in the long run and rare exceptions notwithstanding.

But, as I said, faced with lack of adequate law and serious enforcement - it remains largely a moral question everybody has to answer for themselves.

[jts]

TChan, rights for a book are either clearly assigned by the copyright law of the country in question, or the work is orphaned. If the latter, then different jurisdictions handle the problem in different ways, but the U.S. standard appears to be that you can use the orphaned work at your own risk.

Anyway, if your expertise as a collector of fine books and .pdfs gives you special insight into the difficulties of writing a properly licensed tsumego app, I hope you will grace us with your own contribution to the AppStore.

[tchan001]

Unless you are thinking of the famous ancient go manuals, assuming the modern famous go problem books as being orphaned is quite wishful thinking.

As to building an app where I would need to track down multiple sources of copyright holders and finance the payments for the individual licencing rights for each important book or series of books, I doubt it would be worth the effort if thought about in a purely business sense and unfortunately I'm not rich enough to consider a philanthropic endeavor in this area.

[lobotommy]

New apps.

After a long hiatus I found two new Tsumego/Tesuji apps in the AppStore.

First is a "Go Puzzles" app (with problems from gogameguru.com), second one is "Go Game: Yose" which contains collection of end game problems.

I will update first post in this thread with more details in a few minutes.

[update]
New app for Android OS added - Tsumego Pro. If you have it please share your opinion about it, I will include your thoughts in description of the app.

[lobotommy]

Looks like SmartBaduk Yoo Chunghyuk life&death app is broken under iOS7. Notes updated. Need to check all other apps about compatibility issues.

[PotatoDono]

I just installed Tsumego Pro (the First entry in the List) and the App seems to only have 150 Free problems (50 in Basic/easy/intermediate) the rest is offered as an in-app purchase.

[lobotommy]

I just installed Tsumego Pro (the First entry in the List) and the App seems to only have 150 Free problems (50 in Basic/easy/intermediate) the rest is offered as an in-app purchase.

Thanks for the info.

[kdberg]

Looking for advice from Android users on good English apps for studying for single digit kyu level players. I have a nice 8 inch Samsung tablet and have downloaded several free and paid apps from Google Play. I find the range in quality all over the map. The original posts in this forum were great, but now a bit dated.

Thanks in advance for sharing.